Random Thoughts From DCI Buffalo

[kckempf]

-- Other than Santa Clara ( Les Mes ) I didn`t recognize 90% of the music played by everyone else -- not necessarily bad but definitely odd

You should probably look up a lot of the music. Bluecoats continued their Paul Simon love affair, Cadets did a show comprised entirely of Barber works that had already seen the field in previous years, Crown somehow combined Philip Glass and Richard Strauss, you'll recognize Blue Devils' Rite of Spring music from Fantasia, Cavaliers played the theme from the recent Star Trek movies, plus some music from the daVinci Code and Angels and Demons (which I honestly didn't recognized but I didn't see those movies). I didn't recognize Phantom's Shostakovich music but then again I haven't heard much of his music. None of it is really out there, though some of it is new to drum corps.

[seen-it-all]

-- Is it me or do most of the corps seem to lack their own personality and identity? ( Santa Clara one of the few exceptions -- have adapted to new age of drum corps but still true to their roots )

It depends. I look at and listen to the Cadets and it seems very much like the Cadets to me. Carolina Crown has always been rather like a chameleon corps, so I'm not sure their identity lies much beyond some amazing performance quality. They have moved very comfortably between musical styles over the years, never really pinned down to one thing, and I guess that makes their versatility their identity. Phantom still looks and sounds like Phantom to me, albeit a more modern version, not completely tied down to strict classical music. And honestly, as off the wall as the Blue Devils show is, when I listen to that hornline, it totally sounds like the Blue Devils to me. That crazy jazz sequence in the first half of their show is as Blue Devils as you can get while adapting to a more modern approach to drum corps. And even the later stuff in the show, the quieter moments, to me, are very much in keeping with the Blue Devils sound I've come to expect. Adapted in a modern context, YES, but still very faithful to their roots in my opinion.

-- Maybe I should have bought a program which might have helped explain what each corps was trying to do but I didn't get or understand most of the shows -- that can't be good

People were complaining about the same thing twenty years ago.

-- Why are some corps allowed to play a street beat or cadence off the field and others not?

I think that may be part of the Tournament of Champions format. Corps can do that if they choose. Not sure, exactly, but that would be my guess.

-- My absolute favorite part of going to a drum corps show is definitely watching the drum lines warm up in the lot before the show -- brings back memories of when everyone always crowded around us to watch us play

( wish YouTube was invented back then...lol )

Tell me about it! Could you imagine lot videos of the old Bridgemen lines? The lot has been and always will be one of the great things about going to a drum corps show.

-- $39 to see a drum corps show -- really? ... and why does the announcer introduce the corps 45 seconds into their show

I won't comment on the price. I'm still hurting from the amount of money I paid to put gas in my tank this morning! (ouch!) As for the announcements, it's just a new format on how corps can present their programs. The actual judged part of the show doesn't begin until after that announcement is made. What you see and hear (from some corps) before that announcement is called a 'pre-show.' Back in the old days, many corps would use that time to play a warm-up or something. Some corps did nothing. The first ever example of a pre-show that I can remember where that time was used to actually begin presenting some kind of show-related performance to the audience was the 1987 Santa Clara Vanguard with their Russian fantasy show. There was some play acting by the performers and some small ensembles and soloists playing famous Russian themes, and then they froze in position, the announcement was made, the audience was already pulled into what was about to happen, and the show began. That's basically what the corps are doing now. You can do drill, you can play music, you can do pretty much anything you want in that allotted time, and most corps coordinate things so that everything lines up with that announcement. Some are better at it than others, but that's what it is.

-- I don't know why but I've always liked corps that start their show from the end zone rather than the middle of the field -- different I guess

Yup. Different. It was kinda neat, but I'm glad they don't mandate that anymore. Some of those types of rules were better left in the past IMO.

-- Do we really need 20 people in the pit? -- I can't remember which corps it was but one corps pit was so loud I could barely the horns and the drums the whole show

That may be an amplification problem, it can be annoying and it is a common complaint. As for the numbers in the pit, I don't have a problem with it. Those are some of the best musicians on the field and so often in the past, aside from some quieter moments in the show, I could never really appreciate their true contribution to the musical presentation. I appreciate actually getting to hear the different sounds and textures they add to the performance. I would agree, however, that they are often amped too loud.

-- I hate to say this but who ever came up with Phantom's show should be fired -- not only was it boring and not entertaining but more importantly, the kids didn't look like they were having any fun out there

Not sure how "them having fun" manifests itself in your eyes. Even in their most "Phantom" of years when they were firing on all cylinders, I never really got the impression that they were having "fun," but then again, they (like SCV in some ways) are a very intense corps and "them having fun performing their show" can manifest itself in different ways. Are we expecting them to smile or something? It may be that you just didn't like the show and you projected that dislike onto the performers? Just a thought.

-- The talent level of today's drummers, horn players and color guard is exceptional -- too bad the shows aren't

To each their own. I've been around the activity for over 30 years and I think the top 4 shows this year in particular are very entertaining, each in their own unique way. One of my favorite top 4's of all time. Lots of variety and, as you say, tremendous performance quality.

-- Other than Madison and the Calvaliers, it still seems weird to me seeing guys in the color guard -- not that there's anything wrong with that

The less said about this, the better. It's the 21st century for crying out loud.

-- Not 100% sure but I think Santa Clara had the only cymbol line out there -- those guys are literally in a class by themselves not to mention the fact that they're amazing too!

Sadly, cymbal lines are slowly disappearing. SCV, Colts, Crossmen, Spirit, Surf (?) and I think maybe Pacific Crest are the only ones left. I'm with you here. I miss a good cymbal line.

-- It used to be that the General Effects were there to visually enhance and compliment the music -- now it seems like it's the other way around -- something is way out of whack here

Not sure I understand what you're saying (in relation to how you said it). Is it that you think the visual is getting rewarded too much? If so, a lot of people agree with you. I'm more of a visual guy and I think the balance is right.

-- The whole time I'm watching the shows I'm thinking in the back of my mind -- this looks like some sort of a drum corps video game or a track meet out there

It can seem that way, for sure. Especially for those over 40.

Sometimes I'm literally in awe at what these young performers can do. It truly is inspiring. In that respect, the activity hasn't changed much at all. Whether or not we agree with the programming choices, the performers are still incredible, no matter what they're being asked to do.

-- Keeping their the long and great tradition of excellence in mind -- tell me the Blue Devils didn't just jump the shark this year? -- marching around 100 pylons out there -- really?

Meh. It's not like they're the first one to use props, or even props like that before where the performers march around them. The 1995 Cadets had a similar thing going on with "trees" all over the field (their props didn't move). In addition to a park bench and several wooden crates for the guard to dance on. And oh yeah, a whole bunch of drum sets on the field. Talk about prop overload! (But I digress, it was the 2012 Blue Devils who totally influenced the direction of prop use in drum corps this year….sorry, that was an argument for a different person in a different thread.)

-- I'd like to meet all the idiots who put the together the concepts for some of these shows and ask them one question -- what were you thinking?

Just because you don't like the shows, doesn't make them idiots. They're actually very deeply invested in the drum corps activity and have been for many many years. They've devoted their lives to it, in fact. They are FANS of drum corps just like you, they love drum corps just like you, and they work very hard and are extremely good at what they do. That you don't care for the product is your right, but lets leave the name calling out of it. My guess is that if you actually sat down and spoke to some of those people, you might just get a better idea of where they're coming from, even if you still don't agree with it.

-- I have to give credit to all the performers out there -- how you can play and do all that running around out there is truly remarkable

AGREED!

-- Maybe it`s because I`m getting older but all the performers looked like they 14 or 15 yrs old

And they look younger and younger every year! :)

-- Is it really necessary to have a half hour break after the first 3 corps performed -- do you smell stadium and DCI money grab

In short, it's just part of how shows are run these days. Gotta make money somewhere and programming at least one break is the best way to do that. Especially when your lineup is only seven corps. They even do this at smaller high school venues. It is what it is.

-- I wonder if the food they feed them is better than it was back when I marched -- dumb question... guess it doesn`t take much to improve on prison like quality food...lol

In general, it's much better, as is the way they travel. I wish we had it this good when I marched!

[oaklandcrusader]

Too much to answer properly right now, so I'll just quickly note that an audience of 7,000+ at Massillon the very next night saw Cadets, Crown, and Bluecoats cheered loudly for all of them--and responded warmly (to say the least) to the other five corps as well (Cascades, Oregon, Crest, Academy, and Spirit). These people were definitely entertained. I took eight people to that show who'd never been to a drum corps show before and of the six who could decide which corps they liked best, it was two for Cadets, three for Crown, and one for Bluecoats.

Glad you and your friends enjoyed the show...don't get me wrong, I love Drum Corps and believe me, I could see and hear and appreiciate all the talent that was out out there on that field -- I'm in no way questioning that at all...I guess what I was trying to say is that no one corps really excited me to the point where I wanted to stand up and cheer during their performance or that no one corps really gave me that wow factor that I was hoping for...maybe, if I see those corps again I'll feel different...

Cheers,

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader

[oaklandcrusader]

To the OP

You start off by saying you're not stuck in the past

And then the rest of your post contradicts that

Not sure what to say other than embrace change, it is the only thing that's constant!

I can understand why you feel that I contradicted myself at times but maybe it's because I have mixed emotions on some things...these were just my immediate thoughts and observations...not saying they're right or wrong -- just the way I felt...mostly, that I felt the shows were a little boring...yes, there are some things that I perfer from the past but I also mentioned plenty of things that I really liked as well about the present...I guess I'm hoping for a happy medium sometime down the road...

Cheers,

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader

[FlamMan]

Great post. Most of the people who I marched with during my 8 years in Drum Corps with whom I still talk with feel the exact same way. Most don't attend shows anymore since the Drum Corps activity has become marching band.

Every DCI exec & Corps Director should be required to read your post. If they don't start listening to fans, well, you know...

I attended my first DCI Drum Corps show in 3 or 4 years on Monday August 5, 2013 in Buffalo...But before I begin with my thoughts and impressions of the show, let me first preface what I'm about to say by letting you know that I'm not someone who is stuck in the past or someone who doesn't believe in change or progress...Also, as a former member of the Oakland Crusaders Drum Line back in the mid to late 70's, I can certainly appreciate all the hard work, dedication and commitment that it takes from everyone involved to put on a show...

With that said, let me begin by saying I watched 7 of the top DCI Drum Corps perform which included the Cadets, Phantom Regiment, Santa Clara Vanguard, Carolina Crown, Bluecoats, Blue Devils and the Calvaliers...With that great lineup, I can't believe what I'm about to say -- I was bored stiff! ...I have performed in and watched hundreds and hundreds of shows over the years and I have never been so disappointed in the performances that I saw and heard as I was on Monday night... I wanted so badly for any corps to do something that would pull me out of my seat and make me stand up and cheer like I have so many times before -- whether it be an outstanding horn solo, an unbelievable drum break or a horn line playing a number so powerful that they almost blow the stands down...Sadly, for me that moment never came...Santa Clara came the closest but for more subtle reasons that are so classic of Vanguard -- their execution, precision and how amazingly clean they were...

So, without further delay here are some of my random thoughts, likes and dislikes :

*( did not get to see the Cadets show -- they just took the field and ushers would not let us thru the tunnel until they were finished )

Random Thoughts ( Overall Impressions )

-- Is it me or do most of the corps seem to lack their own personality and identity? ( Santa Clara one of the few exceptions -- have adapted to new age of drum corps but still true to their roots )

-- Maybe I should have bought a program which might have helped explain what each corps was trying to do but I didn't get or understand most of the shows -- that can't be good

-- Why are some corps allowed to play a street beat or cadence off the field and others not?

-- My absolute favorite part of going to a drum corps show is definitely watching the drum lines warm up in the lot before the show -- brings back memories of when everyone always crowded around us to watch us play

( wish YouTube was invented back then...lol )

-- $39 to see a drum corps show -- really? ... and why does the announcer introduce the corps 45 seconds into their show?

-- I don't know why but I've always liked corps that start their show from the end zone rather than the middle of the field -- different I guess?

-- Do we really need 20 people in the pit? -- I can't remember which corps it was but one corps pit was so loud I could barely the horns and the drums the whole show

-- I hate to say this but who ever came up with Phantom's show should be fired -- not only was it boring and not entertaining but more importantly, the kids didn't look like they were having any fun out there

-- The talent level of today's drummers, horn players and color guard is exceptional -- too bad the shows aren't

-- Other than Madison and the Calvaliers, it still seems weird to me seeing guys in the color guard -- not that there's anything wrong with that

-- Not 100% sure but I think Santa Clara had the only cymbol line out there -- those guys are literally in a class by themselves not to mention the fact that they're amazing too!

-- It used to be that the General Effects were there to visually enhance and compliment the music -- now it seems like it's the other way around -- something is way out of whack here

-- The whole time I'm watching the shows I'm thinking in the back of my mind -- this looks like some sort of a drum corps video game or a track meet out there

-- Keeping their the long and great tradition of excellence in mind -- tell me the Blue Devils didn't just jump the shark this year? -- marching around 100 pylons out there -- really?

-- I'd like to meet all the idiots who put the together the concepts for some of these shows and ask them one question -- what were you thinking?

-- I have to give credit to all the performers out there -- how you can play and do all that running around out there is truly remarkable

-- Maybe it`s because I`m getting older but all the performers looked like they 14 or 15 yrs old

-- Is it really necessary to have a half hour break after the first 3 corps performed -- do you smell stadium and DCI money grab?

-- I wonder if the food they feed them is better than it was back when I marched? -- dumb question... guess it doesn`t take too much to improve on prison like quality food...lol

Likes & Dislikes

Drum Lines

Likes :

-- Was very impressed with the amount of talent in all the lines

-- Lots of great chops

-- Bass drum licks that all the lines play -- technology (sticks, heads and teaching tools) have helped bring that section up way beyond the next level

-- How clean Santa Clara`s entire line was

-- Bluecoats drum line especially their quads -- their line reminds me a lot of our Oakland Crusaders line when we were just starting to come into our own -- watch out for them!

-- Some of the stuff the Cadets were playing -- crazy!

Dislikes :

-- Nobody seems to play all 26 rudiments anymore -- sounds like a lot of taps and diddles to me

-- Nobody seems to have their own distinct sound or style -- I`ll argue that you could switch Devils line with the Cadets or Cadets line with the Crown etc and you wouldn`t notice much of a difference

-- Maybe I caught them on a off day but Blue Devils were slurring way too much

-- Wish the Bass drums today had a deeper sound

-- Did I mention the fact that I don`t like the sound of today`s drums -- Santa Clara was the best followed by Bluecoats

Horns

Likes :

-- Carolina Crown`s up and down rundown while they`re in that soft curve formation

-- All the horn lines playing technically difficult music while running around like Usain Bolt

-- How clean Santa Clara was

Dislikes :

-- Other than Santa Clara ( Les Miserables ) I didn`t recognize 90% of the music played by everyone else -- not necessarily bad but definitely odd

-- No real solos like we`re used to hearing -- how could all those corps have not one great solo?

-- No power -- I think it`s because 1) the types of horns they use today and the way they`re constructed...2) they have no wind left after doing all that running around out there

Color Guard

Likes :

-- The Rifles -- they`re back! ...was impressed with a lot the work and tosses from 3 or 4 of the corps

-- It`s not a new concept but I like the idea that the Rifle lines were also used on flags to make things much more visually enhanced

-- The Calvaliers used one particular flag at one point in their show that was visually eye catching and stunning

-- Was really impressed with the quickness and athleticism of everyone on the field -- to be young again...lol

Dislikes :

-- there is so much movement going on that it becomes distracting and confusing and you can`t take it all in or appreciate everything that`s going on

-- Do we really need all these dumb props the some of the corps are using just to make some sort of statement that -- hey, we`re ahead of the curve!

Finally, to all you Show Coordinators out there -- remember, that sometimes less is more and that when you`re putting your show together that your 2 main goal should be :

1) Make sure that the marching members have fun and enjoy performing the show -- otherwise what`s the point

2) To entertain the audience -- not to try and impress the coordinators of the other corps with how smart you are and what a great visionary you are...I shouldn`t have to ask myself after watching your show -- what the hell was that??

Anyways, that`s my story and I`m sticking to it ( discuss amongst yourselves...lol )

Duz Ga Duz

[oaklandcrusader]

What I will say to the OP is this:

1. Thanks for the good questions and thanks for sharing your thoughts and concerns.

2. Your comments are a lot like what I would expect from someone who hadn't seen a corps show in 20 years. Not a bad thing, but definitely how I think I would feel, too, if I hadn't seen corps in that long. 3 to 4 years is not all that long and not that much has changed -- although it's that little bit of change that happens each year that adds up over 4 or 5 years.

3. I will completely agree with you that music has become unrecognizable, and in a nutshell this is where I think drum corps have gotten themselves into trouble. To me the question is not one of can they or can't they play all this highly artistic, concert-level literature (orchestral, band, avante guard jazz), but can they arrange it to meet the needs of a field show and present it to the audience in a manner that it will be accepted. I don't think we, the audience, need to know all the music, but it still has to be sold to us in some way. The choppiness, sporadic developmental techniques being used by many arrangers (let's just call this over-arranging) has made these unrecognizable works even more difficult to listen to, and that has caused many of the problems.

4. A number of your concerns are the result of the flat-out speed of the marching, music, guard work, and drill design. The audience is often left trying to catch-up to things. People from another country might watch some of our drum corps and think "why is it you can't stay on point, and why must you rush everything so quickly?" They might think our idea of programming is to make the kids look like they are hyperactive children on acid who have short memories and a desire to finish as fast as they can. Here in America I think most of us realize that what the designers were doing was to increase demand while trying to provide more content. Sadly everyone is trying to outdo the "Jones'" and the whole concept of demand has taken us into the "field show on steroids" model. Not always good when not managed well.

5. You mention style and ask why most corps lack a true identity? I do think their are some identities left, but even with those corps there is a lot of copying. Ultimately drum corps, with it's highly competitive nature, has become like the NFL or NBA: a copycat league. Some of this is good, and some not so much. All of the world class corps realized years ago that they couldn't compete well enough if they were true to some unique style or tradition. You go where the judges are awarding points, and unless the system starts to award points to better design, better and more realistic GE, as well as performance, then we will continue to see the same old thing year in and out.

Thanks for your reply...you make a number of good points that I agree with and yes, when you haven't seen a show in a few years there is that little bit of "sticker shock " feeling...I think the marching that the corps are doing today is amazing but like I mentioned in my post -- it's to the point where it can be distracting at times and as you say, "The audience is often left trying to catch-up to things" --taking away from the overall enjoyment and appeciation of the performance...

Bottom line, as i mentioned before -- no one really excited me to the point where I wanted to stand up and cheer during their performance and I think most of the fans at the stadium agreed because the applause for the most part was kind of luke warm for everyone...the clapping was more of -- we appreciate your hard work and effort rather than... " Wow! I could watch you guys perform that show 20 more times! "

Cheers,

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader

[oaklandcrusader]

Starting on the field? The 20-person pit? These have been de rigeur for over 25 years. Complaining about Bb brass would be more up-to-date.

I'm a little confused. There are tons of these moments in the seven performances you saw... I can understand being turned off by a lot of the changes and the style of shows these days, but these smaller moments are still there. If you saw Cadets and weren't impressed by their battery and you watched Crown and weren't blown away by their brass, then ... perhaps there's nothing they could do to impress you.

As I mentioned in my post, a bunch of people and myself unfortunately didn't get to see the Cadets perform because the ushers wouldn't let thru the tunnel once they hit the field -- getting into the stadium was a gong show...I also mentioned that I thought the Cadets drum line was playing some crazy good stuff...I'm sure if I see these corps again I would pick up more of these nuggets that you're talking about and like the shows more...

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader

[Lincoln]

[/b]

Thank you for responding to the OP's points the way you did.

I liked your responses. Mostly, I liked your treatment and respect of the OP's comments/questions.

Good for you!

[oaklandcrusader]

Being stuck in the past and disliking the current changes are two different things. I'm in my 20s and have the same opinions as the OP. Just throwing that out there.

Thanks for your reply...

Cheers,

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader

[oaklandcrusader]

Wow...I don't think you have seen a show for over a decade with your comments. Drum corps started getting this way in the early 2000's.

You also much be losing your hearing because those corps are pushing a lot of sound out. Is it the same as the G Bugle lines you could feel through your chest? No, but it's the best we got.

Check again, but there are some fantastic soloists in the corps. They may not be screaming out high notes but it is what it is.

I'm sure there's lots of great soloists in all the corps...I'm just saying I wish they were featured more

Cheers,

Edited August 9, 2013 by oaklandcrusader