funkjazzaxe Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I have noticed every year more reliance on electronics and effects, it seems the rules are relaxed more and more to allow amplification to be a part of the voice and timbre of the corps. If you read the initial proposals about the allowance of amplification and electronic instrumentation, it is easy to see the Pandora's box being opened. At first most corps directors seemed to feel that it would allow for a better "balance" within the ensemble, or allow for soloists to play over the horn line easier. This thread isn't to debate amps and synths- it appears they are here to stay. Rather, I wonder where it is all going. This year I noticed a LOT of reliance on electronics for impact and bottom end push (the "synth goo" everyone speaks of). Also, the soloists being mic'd are often playing through a number of digital effects- reverb/delay/etc. What are the boundaries- are there any in relation to electronic outboard equipment and/or plug-ins that "sweeten" the sound of the soloist or ensemble? If "no", then as technology advances- where does it go? Due to technology anyone can go down to Guitar Center and purchase outboard reverb/compression/delay/chorusing/realtime (Antares, PITCHMAP) pitch correction, etc etc. I wouldn't doubt listening to many of the mic'd soloists that many corps are already using stuff to "buff out" the sound. It is often hard to tell if the sound is coming from a horn or synth, everything is getting very "processed" sounding. Are there limits to the amount of processing allowed? For reference I am a former marching member (90's- back in the G bugle/non-amp days) and am now a full-time professional musician (guitarist) so I know the world of electronics and studio sound processing stuff very well. The liberal use of processing can definitely make for a more "flattering" sound, but one that is very synthetic and processed (listen to old GRP records from the 80's! Awesome playing- no soul!) When electronics were ruled fit for use I am not sure they thought of them being integrated into the actual sound of horn lines, or used for sub frequency "brown note" effects in lieu of actual brass/bass drums/etc. Where does it go from here? One synth through a rack of amps can part someone's hair a mile away, especially in the sub frequencies. Will Contra, or I guess now tuba (meh), lines be rendered obsolete? A good autotune program like Antares and some reverb/delay can make Biz Markie sound like Michael Buble (ever wonder what Selena Gomez REALLY sounds like? Yikes)... is that our future for drum corps? What are the rules on "sweetening" effects? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Designers understand that a great brass sound will beat amplified synthetic sounds in terms of crowd appeal. Crown brass this year being a great example. This is the way i see electronics being used... they are used to allow designers the ability to fulfill their creative vision. Giving them the freedom to do more than they ever could before. Where it is trending, depends on the corps. Or really depends on the designer. Cavies the past two years are heavily relying on their electronics to fill the sound of their corps. 2012 in metlife for the TOC show, it was raining and all the corps except BD and Crown pulled their electronics, once it started rainjng at least. Bluecoats, scv, boston sounded fine without them. Cavies sounded awful without it, and not just focusing on the electronic parts of the show. There was no balance and they were by far the most quiet corps that night. Not saying that they will do it again next year, but if there is not a change i imagine a similar design in a heavy use of electronics. Voice over is becoming an effective way of conveying emotion in a lazy way. (Not always the case and yes it can be well done). I dont see more voice over being used overall unless designers that like it take over the activity. As of right now you have corps that dont use it, and corps that do use it... some more some less. On another note i think woodwinds should be used in the pit. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) I don't know where this is going, but I find this a critical period for this entertainment option. Times are changing rapidly, thanks to new advances in technology. How this impacts where we are, and where we might need to go, is the challenge. I am sure there was a time when millions were enamored by IBM Selectric typewriters. As well they should have been! Edited August 13, 2013 by Fred Windish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks for the thoughtful response, although I think we see things very differently (especially woodwinds) haha... The use of electronics is an interesting subject to debate. As far as creativity, I see it both ways. On one hand, there are some cool things that can only be done with electronics. On the other hand, I see the creativity dwindling as far as music and sound effects (that's my main love- the musical/sound aspect of drum corps) in that now any sound imaginable is easily sequenced/programmed and all you have to do is hit a button and get any sound you want. To me it was much cooler seeing SCV using drum heads for helicopter sounds, or seeing other cool improvised percussion, then watching someone hit a button. The totally acoustic nature of drum corps made it unique and more impressive, in my opinion that aspect has been lost. Again- anyone can blow someone out of their seat with the volume generated by one synth and a rack of power amps- so the "wow" factor of the aural impact has been diminished now that electronics and amplification are a part of the equation. My opinion, anyways. My original post deals with the rapidly evolving music processing and manipulation technology and its impact on the sound of drum corps and how it is able to be used. I wonder where it goes? One trend I have noticed is now that the technology is readily available for anyone to autotune/process just about any sound to anything and sweeten/correct in realtime (technically speaking- polish a turd), a lot of people are becoming hip to it and are yearning for the real thing (less processing- more "real" sounds from real instruments and musicians, less artificial stuff going on). Daft Punks latest album (huge album) was recorded mainly on analog tape, with old school studio cats (NIle Rogers, Omar Hakim, etc) to get a more "real" sound going on. Same with the latest Foo Fighters album. Seems a lot of the freak electronic excess of the 80's has been shed for a more organic sound. Back when studio processing was the rage and it was all brand new, even the drummer had a rack of effects for his snare and guitarists played through racks as tall as your fridge! Everything got really processed sounding (even jazz- GRP stuff esp) and started sounding homogenous and very "fake". Music buffs got tired of it and now that overly processed sound is frowned upon by pretty much everyone outside of pop music (also pop country, pop hip hop, etc). Seems the average drum corps member and fan is not the typical pop music type, so I wonder if the trend of using electronics to fake things will eventually implode on itself? Will the masses grow tired of the "goo" and demand the real thing again? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shempy Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I think what's important to understand is that this is very new ground for most of the show designers/instructors/etc. Each corps is going to feel their way around these new technologies, effects and DCI's regulations regarding them. Come 5-10 years from now (provided DCI doesn't go bankrupt or the G7 doesn't split off to tour Bollywood or something), I think we'll see these things used in such a way where you won't even notice them, and if you do, you won't care because the effect is so good. Not to say that the "acoustic" shows will die, but rather that show designers will mature in regard to their use of their new toys, and will use the tech to amplify a show - not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 What are the boundaries- are there any in relation to electronic outboard equipment and/or plug-ins that "sweeten" the sound of the soloist or ensemble? No limits. Anything electronic is okay. EWIs, guitars, effects... If "no", then as technology advances- where does it go? Due to technology anyone can go down to Guitar Center and purchase outboard reverb/compression/delay/chorusing/realtime (Antares, PITCHMAP) pitch correction, etc etc. I wouldn't doubt listening to many of the mic'd soloists that many corps are already using stuff to "buff out" the sound. Totally. There were multiple solos this year that were miked and effect-ed up in such a natural-sounding way that it honestly is impossible to tell how much is the player and how much is the effects rack. It is often hard to tell if the sound is coming from a horn or synth, everything is getting very "processed" sounding. Are there limits to the amount of processing allowed? Nope. Will Contra, or I guess now tuba (meh), lines be rendered obsolete? We already have several corps marching just 12 or even 10 contras. I'm sure you'll see them shrink further. Perhaps they'll become the cymbal line of the 2020s. What are the rules on "sweetening" effects? No rules. The only restriction on electronics is that you can't use "musical" samples, ie singing. But the corps are using sampled singing all over the place without apparent penalty (Blue Knights and Bluecoats are using clearly sampled singing--I watched Bluecoats' synth player to see if he was "triggering each note" but no, the singing continued even with the synth player's hands down), so either that rule has been changed or reinterpreted since 2009, or there just isn't any enforcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumcorpsmademeaTuba Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 We already have several corps marching just 12 or even 10 contras. I'm sure you'll see them shrink further. Perhaps they'll become the cymbal line of the 2020s. Meanwhile you have the Madison Scouts who spent two years with an absurd 20 on their line, and the max norm nowadays is still 16, which is nearly twice as many as the max norm of the 70s and 80s. I don't seem to recall any groups sporting only 10 contras by their choice alone and not membership concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland1 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 not only is it relatively new, very rarely do i hear people say how much they love the electronic sounding bits in a show. unlike people applauding and screaming out "YEAH!" and/or "WOO!!!" when a corps has a great melo or contra feature. We love the pedal tones. and yes they can be louder and more clean being pumped through a mac hooked up to a speaker, but we wouldn't scream out because of that. If the goal of a designer is to have mass appeal for their show, then over time they will realize how much is too much and how much is not enough. its a balance. i do not think there a lot of shows in the future with 0 electronics. You are just able to do things you cant do without electronics, with electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) I have noticed every year more reliance on electronics and effects, it seems the rules are relaxed more and more to allow amplification to be a part of the voice and timbre of the corps. If you read the initial proposals about the allowance of amplification and electronic instrumentation, it is easy to see the Pandora's box being opened. At first most corps directors seemed to feel that it would allow for a better "balance" within the ensemble, or allow for soloists to play over the horn line easier. This thread isn't to debate amps and synths- it appears they are here to stay. Rather, I wonder where it is all going. This year I noticed a LOT of reliance on electronics for impact and bottom end push (the "synth goo" everyone speaks of). Also, the soloists being mic'd are often playing through a number of digital effects- reverb/delay/etc. What are the boundaries- are there any in relation to electronic outboard equipment and/or plug-ins that "sweeten" the sound of the soloist or ensemble? If "no", then as technology advances- where does it go? Due to technology anyone can go down to Guitar Center and purchase outboard reverb/compression/delay/chorusing/realtime (Antares, PITCHMAP) pitch correction, etc etc. I wouldn't doubt listening to many of the mic'd soloists that many corps are already using stuff to "buff out" the sound. It is often hard to tell if the sound is coming from a horn or synth, everything is getting very "processed" sounding. Are there limits to the amount of processing allowed? For reference I am a former marching member (90's- back in the G bugle/non-amp days) and am now a full-time professional musician (guitarist) so I know the world of electronics and studio sound processing stuff very well. The liberal use of processing can definitely make for a more "flattering" sound, but one that is very synthetic and processed (listen to old GRP records from the 80's! Awesome playing- no soul!) When electronics were ruled fit for use I am not sure they thought of them being integrated into the actual sound of horn lines, or used for sub frequency "brown note" effects in lieu of actual brass/bass drums/etc. Where does it go from here? One synth through a rack of amps can part someone's hair a mile away, especially in the sub frequencies. Will Contra, or I guess now tuba (meh), lines be rendered obsolete? A good autotune program like Antares and some reverb/delay can make Biz Markie sound like Michael Buble (ever wonder what Selena Gomez REALLY sounds like? Yikes)... is that our future for drum corps? What are the rules on "sweetening" effects? Four to six synthesizers playing (in the key of 'G') the parts formerly played by brass players. Percussion in the pit only. And about 115 flags/rifles/dancers/whatever the designer can envision on the field proper... edit for PS - I hope I am wrong... Edited August 13, 2013 by IllianaLancerContra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkjazzaxe Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 (edited) I re-read the initial proposals from Hopkins and it seems the rules have been relaxed since the initial inception and changed a lot to allow the amps/synths to play an ever increasing role. Now that corps can sequence and stuff, I just don't know when and where it stops. The irony- in my opinion of course- is that a lot of the uniqueness and creativity has been squashed with the advent of electronics. They came in so people could be more creative, but now every corps kinda does the same thing with it and sound very similar. To me it is very relevant who is creating the sound and how, it is a big part of the entertainment to me. A totally acoustic hornline pinned wide open and peeling paint is very impressive and thus entertaining! Someone hitting a button and parting my hair with power amps- not really. I would guess most people who consider themselves drum corps people feel the same way? So... how did we get here? What's next? Autotuning? Chorusing effects for widening the sound (listen to any old Boston or Mutt Lang produced Def Leppard album to see what I mean!)... do people care, or does the artistic story telling stuff trump musical tone and production going forward in the modern drum corps world? Edited August 13, 2013 by funkjazzaxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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