Corps Travel and Expansion

[Fred Windish]

Hi, guys!

I love to analyze event marketing. Please allow me one more post to clarify some things before I close for the evening.

I do not have exact paid ticket numbers for Scranton at hand. I threw away quite a bit of materials. My guess for that time would be about 4700 paid at Finals. You must remember, a paid attendance number for just the Finals event does not tell the entire story. I'll explain later. My interpretation of the Winston-Salem event is that, UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES, W-S would have sold at least that many tickets, probably more. Remember, that rainy weekend crowd result was formed by just 5-6 corps, rather than the usual 30 (competing/alumni) groups at a typical championship event.

The reason success can not be based on Finals crowd size alone is due to several factors. Listed in no particular order ;

Ability of the local committee to secure free and reduced-price services.

Success in selling supporting sponsorship financial participation.

Enthusiasm from local media sources.

Complimentary lodging for judges, officials, plus free food and other items.

Donated advertising spots, etc.

Prelim paid crowd size.

Program book advertising sales, and issue sales.

Commercial booster table space rentals

and the list goes on . . . .

A paid Finals crowd of 3500 could pay all the basic bills and leave something for the corps, but everything would need to fall nicely into place. The 'fly in the ointment' would remain, however, increases in travel/lodging expenses for each corps that could quickly wipe out any split from ticket proceeds, even present a net loss for some. There was also a fear our Alumni groups would not travel that far, but who really knows?

My feeling was Winston-Salem represented the best shot to date to experiment with taking DCA's main event out of the Northeast. Even a one year loss for the try would have been instructive. I doubt Minnesota Brass, Kilties, Renegades, Govies, would have seen a trip to W-S much different than a trip out to Rochester.

One reason why a championship try-again in W-S is unlikely, the local committee, local community resources were decimated by the rainy 'trial run.' So much time has passed, many probably do not even live there, or work there in the same capacity. It would be even MORE scary for the corps to roll the dice with that move now, too, after the trial run. I was NOT in any position of input to DCA or influence that year. The DCA people had a better picture of their own situation than I had at that time. I'm confident they made the best choice for the following year.

We'll just NEVER know for sure, what would have been. But from the 'bones' I saw in W-S, it was a good time to take such a plunge.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Fred Windish

[camel lips]

BOA marcher

While it would be great for the DCA activity to expand and I agree they need to you really have to offer them something to travel other than the expectation that they would be growing the fan base and growing ticket sales on something other than a NE regional basis.

They have said it before. They are going no where if you do not pay them. So it's a dead issue.

Let's face the facts. Atlanta CV is the Only Southern corps that has been Finacially Stable and stable from a membership and competitive standpoint year in and year out since it's inception. All of the other DCAS corps and DCA corps that are geographically located in the south that may or may not participate in DCAS activities have either seen periods of inactivity , stepped down in Class designation , restructured or flat out folded over the years. I wish to exclude of course the new corps that are just starting up in the South as they really don't have a track record as of yet to measure thier longevity.

The future may never be brighter for DCAS south than it is today. Time will tell. But Atlanta CV simply cannot expect to be the only corps to bear the finacial burden to get the NE corps to come down and play in the southern play ground. the other DCAS corps are going to have to Significantly step up thier game...both at a competitive level and a stability level before they will have the finacial resources to pay the demands the NE corps require to play.

Edited July 7, 2014 by camel lips

[BOSMarcher]

if they had those numbers for a championship DCA would have to fold. DCA pay's for the corps to compete. all the member corps. 3500 and they are done.

I honestly think DCA Championships only draws about 5,000 paid fans. It looks bigger from corps who do not make it into Finals, I believe. I realize that number is bigger than 3,500... with the right amount of rain, I could see that happening in Rochester.

[Jeff Ream]

I was reading a thread in the DCI forums that spoke about the frustrations of not having more eastern corps travel west during the DCI tour. It got me thinking about the regional exclusivity of DCA. There are some exceptions, where southern or mid-western corps travel to the northeast (an early season treat for northeastern fans), but it is never the other way around. Now, I do not want to start a complaining session - that horse has been beaten - but I would like to open a dialogue of what could be done to make an incentive to get corps mixing it up a bit more the regular season.

I think it would be in DCA's best interest to find incentives to get corps to travel to other locations outside the northeast so that it can expand its market. As good as many of the southern corps have become, it would be great for the fan base in the south to be able to see one of the top five groups at a show. I also believe that getting different corps to compare to would give a more accurate read going into finals weekend. I realize that the current format makes for large place jumps, but at the same time, I feel like we are competitively stunting the groups outside of the northeast.

Again, not a complain session, but what I would like to see is another regional created. Perhaps one in Cincinnati so that corps from multiple regions can particiapte. You could have a line-up of the following:

Open Class

Alliance (6 hrs 42 min.) - similar to their Carolina trip

Buccaneers (8 hrs 5 min) - a bit of a stretch

Cadets 2 (8 hrs 26 min)

Carolina Gold (7 hrs 17 min) - no longer than the Florida show they traveled to this year

CV (6 hrs 42 min.) - less than a northeast trip

Kilties (5 hrs 45 min)

MBI (10 hrs 29 min) - far, but closer than northeast shows

Shenandoah Sound (8 hrs 7 min)

Skyliners (8 hrs 50 min)

Class A

Cincinnati Tradition (host)

Govenaires (11 hrs 15 min)

White Sabers (7 hrs)

Honestly, the groups with the worst drives are ones that have made even longer trips in the past. Is there anyone at DCA that is interested in putting something like this together? If we start expanding the market with quality shows, the market will grow (both in fans and people interested in participating). I thought the regional in Scranton was a great start, but it is still just another northeast show. Cincinnati could be considered the Mid-South regional. That fact that there is a corps local to the city makes it much easier hammer out logistics and ensure there is an audience for something like this.

I think if you could get this many groups in one location it would make the trip worth it for everyone. It would provide the very best read for everyone at that point in the season. Not to mention it could be huge for DCA. Who wouldn't want to go see a line-up for 12 corps before Championships (several of which are contenders)?

Thoughts?

there were some serious incentives thrown in from 1988-1991 to get some of us to go out there......and we had more people on the field than we had in the stands.

if anywhere out in the Midwest were to maybe make it worth while, it'd be MBI/Govies turf....otherwise, I see the host and the travellers losing money

[Jeff Ream]

Hosting championships outside the Northeast sounds easy, but I have one question...

Where's the audience going to come from?

[Jeff Ream]

You're absolutely right. No outside region will even be considered for Championships until they can run a *major* regional that attracts the top competing corps and puts a large local audience in the seats. And as you say, this will take a significant amount of money, as the top corps absolutely will not travel outside the northeast unless you back a dump-truck full of money onto their practice fields (Minnesota Brass excepted, obviously). Winston-Salem was on the right track in 2005, but they were derailed by horrible weather...which has to be considered.

Money talks, and BS walks.

oh there was more than weather that derailed WS.

[Jeff Ream]

Having a large regional show in the mid-west or mid-south would be possible if both DCA and DCI get together and put on a combo show. I know this isn't a new concept and there are combo shows every year, but not on a large scale. DCI has the audience base. The audience base will help entice the Eastern DCA corps to the show because there should be more money for their performance and more merchandise money. But DCA and DCI need to work on this together and both step up to the plate. With such a rich connection between the two circuits as far as membership in and out, a strong partnership just makes sense. DCA really needs an overhall as far as their marketing presence and mission scope.

It's no easy task what the admin has to do and I give them credit. But I think things could be done a little better. One thing I said years ago, the Tour of Champions show format is widely entertaining. As an audience member you are hit right after you leave your car with an interactive experience. Small ensembles outside the gate, drumlines battling in the first parking lot, small ensemble performances in stadium during the down time. All the DCI corps buy into this.

As a "younger audience member" in the 21-40 demographic, I found this format very entertaining and had me coming back for more. Felt like more of a dinner and a show concept than just grab some popcorn, sit in the bleachers, watch some shows concept.

Just my .2 cents. I think a TOC DCI/DCA regional show would be great and a nice way to entice corps to attend.

not to get all DCI here, but the TOC stuff is set up for the 7 corps that make up the TOC group. See, they set those shows up so they wouldn't have to share with the rest of DCI.....so they aren't going to want to share with DCA corps

[BOSMarcher]

BOA marcher

While it would be great for the DCA activity to expand and I agree they need to you really have to offer them something to travel other than the expectation that they would be growing the fan base and growing ticket sales on something other than a NE regional basis.

They have said it before. They are going no where if you do not pay them. So it's a dead issue.

Let's face the facts. Atlanta CV is the Only Southern corps that has been Finacially Stable and stable from a membership and competitive standpoint year in and year out since it's inception. All of the other DCAS corps and DCA corps that are geographically located in the south that may or may not participate in DCAS activities have either seen periods of inactivity , stepped down in Class designation , restructured or flat out folded over the years. I wish to exclude of course the new corps that are just starting up in the South as they really don't have a track record as of yet to measure thier longevity.

The future may never be brighter for DCAS south than it is today. Time will tell. But Atlanta CV simply cannot expect to be the only corps to bear the finacial burden to get the NE corps to come down and play in the southern play ground. the other DCAS corps are going to have to Significantly step up thier game...both at a competitive level and a stability level before they will have the finacial resources to pay the demands the NE corps require to play.

Regardless, it appears that Cincinnati Tradition is interested in hosting a show and I believe that is a good start. Perhaps enough southern and central corps will join to create a great regional for the future. You seem to be harping on my comment about the Northeast, but my main point to the discussion was to create a regional that would see different groups competing (rather than traditional regions). I think Cincinnati is the geographically central point to do that. I am confident this will happen in the next year or two. Not sure if MBI will decide to jump on board, but I think it is possible.

Also, you may have been making a point about the Corpsvets not being able to host larger corps, but that really was not a point I was attempting to make. You have no argument from me... why spend money on other corps when you can use that money to go to them. No corps can support other corps travel like that.

[Jeff Ream]

From the sounds of all this Winston -Salem might have turned out with a good week-end to have been the best DCA Championships in many years .I sure wouldn't close the door on another try there .Considering the bad weather a crowd of mostly non drum corps fans of 3,500 .I'd take that anyday for any show .Not sure of the numbers in Rochester ,the last years i attended as a fan where 2007 and 2008 .Didn't think the crowd has that large .

I was there. I remember one storm shortly before show time...where is this all day rain people speak of? We were out walking the campus most of the day.

part of the problem was $40 ticket prices are not going to draw walk up crowds in an area where people barely know DCI, let alone DCA. Sure, we went down, but there was such an overwhelming amount of hype....and it didn't really pan out

[Jeff Ream]

I honestly think DCA Championships only draws about 5,000 paid fans. It looks bigger from corps who do not make it into Finals, I believe. I realize that number is bigger than 3,500... with the right amount of rain, I could see that happening in Rochester.

Scranton drew anywhere from 4500 to 6000. the Legion gave away a ton of tickets too.

Rochester I believe had an 8000 year in the last run.

love to know the figures on Annapolis last year