Treefidy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Cappybara said: Why the hell are you complaining about a system that will be subjective no matter what? That's like complaining about the scores at a Cheer meet No. Cheer competitions actually have some substance to their scoring system. It's not objective. You amp the crowd up, you get a 5. They don't react, you get a 1. You get them to react to your props, you get a 5, you don't, you get a 1. You perfect your difficult skills, you get a 15, you don't you get a 5. You run the most difficult routine, you get a 10, you run the 8th most difficult, you get a 2. Same goes for stunts, pyramids, etc. Cheerleading (along with Gymnastics, Diving, Figure skating and ALL OTHER JUDGED SPORTS) assign a point value to specific skills (all of which you can find in scoring sheets) and are graded by the completion of those skills. It's not some judge saying "Well School A did two perfect pyramids side by side, but school B had better dance moves, so school B wins in my book." You get scored based on what you did versus your competition. If you fly 30 feet in the air and stick your landing, and school b flies 20 feet in the are and sticks it, school A will be scored higher. Your comparison proves my point about just how subjective DCI (and pretty much all marching arts, boa, wgi, etc) is when compared to nearly ANY other judged sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Treefidy said: Your comparison proves my point about just how subjective DCI (and pretty much all marching arts, boa, wgi, etc) is when compared to nearly ANY other judged sport. ...and there are never any problems with judging on those sports, no sir... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treefidy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, Kamarag said: ...and there are never any problems with judging on those sports, no sir... There definitely is... But at least as a fan you have an idea where to look and what it is that is being graded higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 The thing is that sports that have required elements like Figure Skating, Gymnastics or even Cheerleading have specific required elements. This creates homoginy among all of the performers. Drum Corps is an art form. Its staged theatre. Look at the Tony awards 2 years ago. Was Hamilton better than the king and I? This year was Hello Dolly Better than Dear Evan Hansen? If so why? As I said before we are comparing apples and oranges when the performances are only separated by small degrees. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDCorno Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, ContraFart said: I guess you can call me a BD contrarian as well, however the entire discussion can be boiled down to preference. There is a fatigue out there because BD is 1 or 2 every year, and a show the fans or an individual preferred did not win, and many cannot explain why. For example I thought Crown had a better show in 2009, 2012 and 2015, but BD won all 3 years. So I have to check my own personal biases before evaluating what BD actually puts on the field and not hold on to past resentments. It took me until recently to see that genius in the 2010 show and appreciate the performance level in 2014. Knowing my own prejudice is there, I look for reasons to explain my bias. Yes I think physically what BD does is easier than the traditional drill of Crown or SCV, but I really do not know since my personal experience has nothing to do with body movement since I marched almost 20 years ago. So again it comes down to preference. I direct musical theater so I know in a way the difficulty of what BD does, but its gets to a question of what is harder, doing one impossibly hard thing perfectly, or doing 100,000 simple things perfectly simultaneously? I prefer the pure brass sound of Crown over the top heavy jazz (that sounds almost fully electric) of BD. However when both are so technically good, how do you come up with a score where one wins and the other loses? The problem is that we are trying to compare apples and oranges when the difference in the actual performance is a matter of almost negligible degrees. That is why there is so much debate and passion, and why this thread is created every year. In the end when I am at work, I'm humming BDs ballad in my head and I cannot remember a single musical moment of SCV....that has to count for something. Contra, are you going to Indy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, BDCorno said: Contra, are you going to Indy? I wish. Doing a week in Indy is on my bucket list, but my job and my 11 month old son (who incidentally owns a SCV onesie) keep me in FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treefidy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, ContraFart said: The thing is that sports that have required elements like Figure Skating, Gymnastics or even Cheerleading have specific required elements. This creates homoginy among all of the performers. Drum Corps is an art form. Its staged theatre. Look at the Tony awards 2 years ago. Was Hamilton better than the king and I? This year was Hello Dolly Better than Dear Evan Hansen? If so why? As I said before we are comparing apples and oranges when the performances are only separated by small degrees. Musicals are not scored on some sort of system. Musicals are judged more like movies. A bunch of critics get together and say I like this musical more than this one and that is my analysis. Live with it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Just now, Treefidy said: Musicals are not scored on some sort of system. Musicals are judged more like movies. A bunch of critics get together and say I like this musical more than this one and that is my analysis. Live with it... And now you get Drum Corps judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everyfan Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, ContraFart said: but its gets to a question of what is harder, doing one impossibly hard thing perfectly, or doing 100,000 simple things perfectly simultaneously? This is something I have tried to clarify a number of times here. Doing one impossibly hard thing perfectly is amazing and a wonderful accomplishment, BUT it only proves you can do that one thing. Even if you have the greatest talent on the field that can do anything they are asked, you never showed it to the judges or the audience. This is where the variety of skills comes into play. The Blue Devils are well versed in showing off a variety of skills throughout the show. This is where they get a lot of points in the visual caption, even if they don't "march"as many drill sets as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treefidy Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 minute ago, ContraFart said: And now you get Drum Corps judging. Yeah, except Drum Corps judging uses a point system, which is supposed to be unbiased... It's clearly not when specific judges score significantly different than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.