Quick Brass Question

[bssop97]

I don't really now on reducing swelling.... Ray, can you give some info?

I know it reduces pain by reducing the lactic acid in your chops.... but, IMO (trust me, everybody has a different one on this) but I see the lactic acid as the "hold off" sign. I hate when I saw players use this as a way for a quick chop fix than going right back to playing.

I no longer use them.... never worked for me, might for everybody else however.

Funny thing.... see the post I started last night.

Shannon Jeffreys

Blue Stars 97,99

Edited August 24, 2003 by bssop97

[phido06]

i believe the term pedal tone comes from the fact that the pedals on an organ play really low...

or so i heard at one point...

[SWEuph04]

I figured out how to do pedel tones on the contra...

put one lip in the mouthpiece and pull your ear. :P

Actually pedal tones for the low brass are very simple. They are correct about having very relaxed lips, they the difference is just one lip (usually the lower) is vibrating to create the sound...and it also takes a lot of air to keep it sustaned.

a proper pedal uses both lips... you can do it with one lip but you get better sound with both vibrating

[Dave]

I don't really now on reducing swelling.... Ray, can you give some info?

I was referring to the previous post's question about icing chops after playing.

[trptjock]

Pedal tones (in my experience) have been helpful for me to help refine my sound in all registers. The idea is that when you properly execute the pedal tone and produce an actual sound with a pitch center, this will then train you to hear notes that are not possible through the natural harmonics of the horn. The lowest note possible on a B-flat trumpet is a low F-sharp, but you can lip and play a pedal F all the day down to as low as you can play. Some players have mastered this and used them in solos many times before.

As for warming up, (Big Dog will attest to this), we used these to get the lips to move more freely so that the lips are ready to play in the meat and potatoes register of the horn. As a contra player (Big Dog), he does not reap the benefits of this exercise due to his large mouthpiece size, but on soprano, mello and baritone, the benefits really help the player out in many ways. I also know that the Blue Devils use pedal tones in their exercises as a way to increase blood flow to the lips and really get the face back to where it should be.

Icing the lips is advisable only if you have done some extensive playing without any rest in the extremes of the horn. If you use pressure (like I do, at times) the lips will have a tendency to swell and get unresponsive. So I usually ice down the face to get the chops back to normal. I only do this when I can feel the lips begin to swell, or when my range begins to reduce from fatigue, and I still have another two hours of playing left to do in a gig. It is a quick fix and does not have any adverse affects on the lip muscle. Much like icing a sore muscle for swelling, this provides the same relief.

Other things you can also do for lip issues: SPLIT-LIPS, use vitamin E tablets (gel tablets), pop the tablet, place the gel on your finger and spread it onto the lip right before you go to bed. the gel will have a tendency to smell like garlic but it works wonders. Also use DCT, or some type of lip balm with sun-block to keep the lips moist and supple. PIMPLES ON THE LIPS, take some colgate toothpaste and apply it to the pimple right before you go to bed. There is a chemical in the paste that reacts with the dirt and oil in the pimple that helps to dry it up. In the morning, the pimple will either be reduced, or gone. You will get a slight burning sensation when you place the toothpaste on your lipe for the first time. That is OK, that tells you that it is working. I have not tried this with any other toothpaste, just Colgate (plain-jane, vanilla, white bread, no-frills Colgate). FEVER-BLISTERS, gargle with salt water, and try to keep that area of your body sterile. Kinda hard when its your mouth, but the blister will eventually go away.

I hope this helps.

If there are any other ideas on this topic, please feel free to post them here. We are all here to learn and contribute.

[cheezedogg 23]

the literal defination of what a pedal tone is is: The fundamental pitch on a brass instument. In english its the first pitch on the harmonic overtone series. Its exactly an octave below low C on the staff for treble clef players and exactly an octave below low Bb for Bass clef players. The first interval in the harmonic series is an octave hence the next note up from the pedal tone (without changing valves) is the C, an octave higher. Pedal notes are hard to acheieve well, and do extremely help you playing in all registers, i'd advise learnin to play pedal tones, and practice as often as anything else.

[bssop97]

If there are any other ideas on this topic, please feel free to post them here. We are all here to learn and contribute.

Will do Ray with a different view than your own.

Now this goes for ONLY trumpet,

My view on pedals is this....

They are not produce with the same embochure, ie..... the pedal embouchure

is too flabby, too rolled out, and lacking in pressure to hold the embochure formation. IMO this leads to tounging problems, multiple embochures and change of your mouthpiece position (which goes hand in hand with the previous fact).

Now there are some that can play pedal tones very well on trumpet: Arturo, Philip Smith, Claude Gordon, etc.... If you look at these players you will notice that they all play with a very high mouthpiece position (75% upper lip). This position makes it far easier to play pedal tones without really ruining the inner part of their embochures.

Now for players that do not use pedal.... John Faddis, Wynton, Maynard, Lyn Nicholson (major league screamer with MF in the 70's), Bill Chase, Cat Anderson, Herbert L. Clarke (did use them than stoped after a chops problem).

I myself had to used them during three times in my life: college and corps.

My most vivid memory is from 99. Prior to moving to LaCrosse, I was on a perty mean training program for my chops. My range was the best it has ever been ( I had a solid Dubbba C cold). I had very good endurance, I didn't take anything down at the first camp I went to( yeah it got nasty, but, its all about confidence that time of the year anyway). Actually I remember hiting a few double D's at the end of Brothers along with Ralph on bari(one of our techs now in the Marine D&B).

Well to wrap it up...... Chris was big into pedals and I was bad on them because I didn't do them. He would actually call me out on them.... he had this one exercise.. It was Clarke #2 in F.... To explain it best it sounded like this..... da,da,da,da, BLAT, BLAT, BLAT,BLAT, etc..... Also other exercises that went down in the pedal range. Well I praticed these like crazy becuase Fisher did them better than me and I was not going to be showed up again (You happy John? J/K). Well I got a mean pedal range, and something else a new high mouthpiece position and a crappy tounge to boot (gone was my triple tounge), also bad endurance and range of A above high C on a good day. Yes, pedals don't work for me, they ruin my chops.

I know some people who use these all the time and don't have any problems or only have quick fixes as results. I refuse to do another pedal as long as I live. There are other exercises I use for relaxation and to find my chops back.

Mainly Clarke #1 at pppp+ no higher than a low C with only the slightest hint of pressure (enough to seal the lips). I see no harm in this exercise for any set of chops.

Just my opinion,

Shannon Jeffreys

Blue Stars 97,99