When one judge calls the show

[Jeff Ream]

15 hours ago, mingusmonk said:

 

Y'all have some wild ideas about how judges view both their individual roles and how their piece fits into the final outcome.

i gotta say, at least with WGI percussion, show of the day and judge your sheet only is a true philosophy that is stuck to. look at the recaps Friday to Saturday and you'll see that philosophy in play. lots of movement in the oridnals all over the place.

[resipsaloquitur]

7 hours ago, ContraFart said:

It impacted the whole of the performance. For roughly 20 to 30 seconds, I was watching the fall, then worried about the girl then I was able to get back into the performance. I honestly do not understand how people can say something like that should have no impact on the score. 

Say you are in a cooking competition between two of the best chefs in the world. Both had perfect dish concepts, perfect flavors and perfect presentation. Wouldn't the chef who overcooked the potatoes slightly have their score affected? Sure the overcooked potatoes didn't ruin the meal, but it is clearly something to point to as a difference between chef A and chef B. 

That girl fell, but she made a great recovery and performed her heart out. It didn't ruin the entire show, but its still noticeable enough to say that a maximum score was not deserved. 

Cooks are not judged by the WGI sheets. Cooks rarely are able to "recover". Except maybe Wolgang Puck. lol

Edited April 26, 2023 by resipsaloquitur

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, ContraFart said:

So I guess you can get a perfect score by breaking my immersion in a show for 30 seconds because there was a crash and its like it never happened because she recovered? 

I may not be able to define perfection, but I know that when a huge fall happens, it's not perfect. I don't think it's that hard.

perhaps you take the WGI Ecertify course. it could definitely give you insight as to the hows and whys

[Jeff Ream]

12 hours ago, ContraFart said:

First of all when you are that top level, the difference is in the margins, wouldn't a fall make a difference in that regard?

And yes I am concentrating on a perfect score. I know a perfect score does not mean perfect, but I would assume a judge would keep a 20 in their pocket if there was a major crash. I'm sorry you can't max out a sheet when there is a break as big as that.

I feel like I'm being gaslit by people saying that the fall wasn't a big deal and they still deserved a 20 in visual performance despite it. 

Either winning is about the performance on that given day or it's what it should have been despite egregious errors, it can't be both.

not saying that at all. if anything it appears people are trying to educate you on the philosophy of the sheet and how the judge could have determined that number was the number to put down

[Jeff Ream]

11 hours ago, denverjohn said:

I believe that "Flo" has changed judging considerably. As someone who has "dabbled" in pageantry judging, consider the degree to which a new aspiring judge would tend to have short commiserating conversations with colleagues BITD. With Flo, I am fairly certain that judges watch what we watch throughout the season to re-evaluate their scoring and compare it their judging peers/mentors. Can you tell me honestly that you would not watch Flo between your judging assignments?

mybe but depending on my sheet, would it help me? if i am on an upstairs sheet, and multi cam is the only options to watch....does it help? field level doesn't help me. if i am a field level judge, does hi cam help me? Maybe before the limitations on where judges could go on the field. 

 

but watching on Flo or even the Fan Network you get what the producer wants you to see. sitting in the box, you get what you see. and something could happen that could pull your eyes away and make you miss something.

an example i always remember is Magic in 2002 when the tenor player bit it backing into the mounted drum on the rack. my friend was watching something on side 2 and totally missed it. only realize it happened when i said "oh ####", and by then the kid was getting back up and thankfully not hurt.

 

the same could happen to a judge upstairs

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, GUARDLING said:

You can explain away till one is blue BUT if only part of what was said wants to be heard there's no point , then you have to agree to disagree. BUT I do agree that the word perfect does not have a place in the conversation either today or even BITD

Murrey74 also made some points but i guess instead of making a point and move on it becomes a back and forth not necessary. One can always disagree with a judgement or outcome.

I made my points, maybe not clear enough so time to move on .🙂

see ya dude

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, ContraFart said:

Easy, do you reach maximum effectiveness if you fall down? Or does that remove achievement? Is the General Effect Maximized when there is a large distraction that takes you out of the production for 30 seconds? 

it wasn't the effect sheet. it was the visual sheet.

[ContraFart]

10 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

perhaps you take the WGI Ecertify course. it could definitely give you insight as to the hows and whys

I understand the how's and why's. I just think they are stupid. Basically what everyone is trying to tell me is that you don't judge the show in front of you. You sort into similar groups and assign numbers based on ordinals and the actual number means nothing.

[ContraFart]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

it wasn't the effect sheet. it was the visual sheet.

Which makes the score all the more egregious 

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, ContraFart said:

Are you telling me that a 20 means nothing? It has no significance? I dont have to use the word perfect to make my point. When you make a huge mistake such as a very noticeable fall, that is not maximum achievement or effectiveness.

Why is that so hard to understand? 

whats hard to understand is you refuse to listen when someone explains ranking and rating. the number is placed to determine the ranking. the judges in question gave a 9.9 to Broken City in the Comp Box....so he/she deemed BC the second best in that box that night. then said judge gave Pulse a 99 in the Performance Box. in their view based on the performance they saw and the criteria on the sheet, they felt RCC was best. so the 10/10. so in order to rank, the rating ended up how it did. 

the number is available as an option. the judge chose to use it to get the rankings they felt was merited.