1977 Bridgemen

[Ex VK DM]

Later on I found out that someone I marched with in 1982 was actually 25 at the time. She had used her brothers birth certificate, His name was Dale and at the time Pennsylvania birth certificate didn't list the sex of the child on them. So she went by dale in both 1981 & 1982 and no one in the corps knew she was overage. I only found out in 1991 when I marched with her in the Royal Lancers Sr. Corps and found out she was 35 at the time, did the math and then got the story from her.

That's why IMO it's an un-enforcable rule. The rule does not require a picture ID, just a birth cirtificate. Anyone could walk into a corps camp say that the name on the BC is theirs and march. As long as the person keeps it to themself. no one is the wiser.

[LancerFi]

byline, I who have just always adored the Bridgemen and their members, I absolutely agree about their drill and from a marching execution standpoint, it was easy and maybe should have been much cleaner.

It just was never up to the top 5 standard, however the rest of the corps was, not including the guard. They sure broke many barriers though!

Edited November 21, 2003 by LancerFi

[gmanbay41]

"Interesting discrepancy, then, between what you've posted and what's on the "A Bit of Bridgemen History" site. (Just about the line-up. Everything else seems to match up.)"

There are a few discrepancies with "A bit of Bridgemen History" that I know of. But for the most part its right on.

As for my source, I talked to one of the people in question from 1977 just last week about it. She told me the info that I posted. I had asked her because of the discrepancies on here between the "bit of Bridgemen History " and what people where saying.

I just wanted to clear it up.

George Lavelle

Bayonne Kidets 72-78'

Bridgemen 79-83'

[gmanbay41]

QUOTE (gmanbay41 @ Nov 20 2003, 08:35 Am

"DCI did not handle this right. It was brought to their attention and they let the corps continue on and once it still looked like the corps had a chance at winning is when they decided to do this. You have to remember that if the corps had won in 77 drum corps would have changed more then the powers to be wanted it. Bridgemen went against the old style and having it win would be the worst for the old establishment. "

"From Byline

"It's an intriguing theory . . . but I don't completely buy it.

Here's my basic problem with the notion that Bridgemen were robbed simply because DCI was afraid they were going to win:

Bridgemen had many wonderful things going for them . . . fantastic horn line, fantastic drum line, fantastic GE. (And the irreverent humor--the ability to not take themselves so seriously, and project that convincingly to the audience--was priceless.)

But, IMO, M&M execution was a glaring deficiency. Not just inadequate, but noticeably inferior to nearly every other corps in the Top 12. It wasn't just the sloppiness in marching, but the relative simplicity of Bridgemen's drill design that bothered me. With an easier drill, Bridgemen should've been able to compensate for that and march more cleanly, but they didn't. This was true not only for '77, but every other year I've watched Bridgemen. As much as I love Bridgemen, I could never believe that a corps who didn't execute one of the fundamental elements of drum and bugle corps--marching--was ever going to win the DCI title. Not politically, but from a scoring standpoint. Every other corps would have to be so deficient in at least one of the other captions to score under Bridgemen, thus making up the difference in Bridgemen's low marching score. Maybe it was possible, but I just don't see it.

Please don't misunderstand me. I adore Bridgemen. And I was one of those people who bristled back then whenever I heard the comment, "They aren't drum corps." I was one of their staunchest defenders . . . and still am. But, given their weakness in M&M, the thought of them winning the DCI title seems inconceivable to me.

Now, if they had kept all their other qualities and brought their drill design and marching execution up to par with that of the other top corps . . . wow! They would have been unstoppable. And if that had been the case in '77, then I think you would have a good argument. "

--------------------

Sue,

I understand you are not slamming the corps. I agree with you about the weakness being M & M. However I dont think it was that far off from BD, PR, & Vanguard. The Bridgemen's thought process was be very strong in all other captions, which they were and get by with okay marching. It was working as evident to beating PR in fort collins(last show before DCI) except for the penalty that made PR win the show.

The dci old establishment could not handle it if this monster they hated won. By getting DQ it should have and could have killed the corps. Which of course it did not. The corps did go on and have many more good years including another shot

at the DCI title in 1980, but the corps choked in prelims and had no chance in finals, which was a show that many people think was the best show the Bridgemen ever did. Good enough to win , but in the position the corps put itself in had no chance.

Imagine if that happen. It would/could have changed drum corps on the east coast.

But we will never know.

Thanks,

George Lavelle

Bayonne Kidets 72-78'

Bridgemen 79-83'

[Malibu]

The corps did go on and have many more good years including another shot

at the DCI title in 1980, but the corps choked in prelims and had no chance in finals, which was a show that many people think was the best show the Bridgemen ever did. Good enough to win , but in the position the corps put itself in had no chance.

Imagine if that happen. It would/could have changed drum corps on the east coast.

But we will never know.

Thanks,

George Lavelle

Bayonne Kidets 72-78'

Bridgemen 79-83'

George, as much as I loved Bridgemen, I have to disagree with you on this. I think if any eastern corps had a shot at the title that year, it was 27th Lancers. They were strong in ALL captions....maybe not so much in horns compared to Spirit, but they were consistent across the board.

Rumors that year was that 2-7 was going to take the title, but they had a very flat finals performance which kept them out of capturing the Championship.

[Malibu]

Also think about it, you just said most people thought it was the best Bridgemen show.......now compare that to a "lack luster" 2-7 show (who BTW beat Bridgemen in both prelims and finals).....you've got to wonder what would have happened if 27th hadn't (according to members) have left their best performance on the practice field prior to performing in finals. What I mean is, it was good enough for 2nd, imagine if they performed it with more energy?

[BennyBassDrum]

I think there might have been a 74 St. Andrews Bridgemen -- still silk shirts and shakos if I remember it right.

you are correct

[BennyBassDrum]

Ok Jojo I missed that. I don't think there was a '75 St.Andrew's Bridgemen tho.

yes there was a 75 St Andrews, just not a good year.

[byline]

The corps did go on and have many more good years including another shot

at the DCI title in 1980, but the corps choked in prelims and had no chance in finals, which was a show that many people think was the best show the Bridgemen ever did. Good enough to win , but in the position the corps put itself in had no chance.

But see, even in 1980, as much as I love that show, I can't imagine it winning. If you've ever watched the overhead prelims tape of that show, then you know what I mean. It's just very, very sloppy visually. There's only one other corps I can think of in finals that year whose marching was almost as bad, but their drill was actually far more difficult than Bridgemen's (though not up to par with the other 10 finalists).

There's a reason why the telecast focused very little on Bridgemen's drill that year . . . or most years, for that matter. (Keep in mind, I was in a corps that wasn't exactly known for its marching, either. So I understand why that happens, but I also understand the competitive price that goes along with it.)

I think of Blue Devils in 1980, who had the total package, and 27th Lancers, who were so incredibly strong visually (and no slouches in percussion and music, either), and I just can't imagine Bridgemen beating either corps. Both were just so much stronger in marching (both execution and design) than Bridgemen, and neither corps was weak enough in any other caption to make up the difference in Bridgemen's visual score.

I even question whether Bridgemen should've beaten Spirit in finals that year. Again, just balancing out all the captions: visual (Spirit was much better), drums (hey, they had a pretty awesome drum line, too), and brass . . . well, what can we say about that horn line that hasn't already been said? For me, as good as Bridgemen were in the percussion and brass captions, Spirit was right there with them, and surpassed them in the visual caption. The only caption in which Bridgemen had a significant edge, I think, was GE. Bridgemen's GE was phenomenal. But we could also make a pretty good case for Spirit's GE . . . though it was a very different kind of GE generated in great part by that amazing horn line.

I'm not trying to slam Bridgemen. I love that corps. I just have great difficulty seeing how, as long as their M&M was so deficient, they were going to win the DCI title. Again, if they improved their marching to the level of the rest of the top corps, then . . . watch out! The title would have been theirs to lose.

And I agree, if they had won the DCI championship as a corps who was strong in all captions (which, IMO, a DCI champion should be; not necessarily winning all captions, but right up there, score-wise), but still carried their trademark irreverent humor and theatricality, then yes, the history of drum corps would've been greatly altered. IMO, they had to get their marching program up with the other top corps before that was a real possibility.

Edited November 21, 2003 by byline

[gmanbay41]

Sue,

I have to disagree about Blue Devils had the total pakcage. There drumline was not very good that year. They were something like 2 -3 points behind Bridgemen & Spirit. I think they marched and played well but not to win that night. Not trying to start a big debate.

That night in 1980 was the best performance the Bridgemen ever had. It should have won, because if you look at recap we were about 3 points behind BD in horns, and our hornline was very good that year, closer then the spread should have been(I am not saying BD should not have won horns ). The 80 hornline was better then 77(this according to people who marched in 77). 27th had a bad show that night. They peaked at DCI East the week before. They were the ones who should have won and were destined to win, but did not do a good enough performance. Spirit was great in prelims, had alot of emotions due to the Jim Ott death, (I give them ALOT of credit getting thru that. Glad I never had to do it.) But in finals they were not as great as that prelims peformance.

We had beat them every show except prelims that year. If we had done a better job in prelims and didnt finish in 4th who knows, plus we did do someting wrong visual in finals. If you watch the exit, beginning of Civil war suite we make a circle, which we rotated, and if you look in the upper right it starts to come in more and wasnt round. Our marching wasnt as bad as you think that year. Side 2 M & M judge went and ticked the drumline 15 times that night because the horns were marching good. I think his name was Hank Grana.

I didnt mean for this to go down this path and again I dont want to start trouble. 1980 finals to me was and became a 4 corps night where anyone corps could have won. I dont know of any other year that was true.

On another note, we did have a few Oakland Crusaders come down and march in the corps during my years. Crazy bunch of people.

Thanks,

George Lavelle

Kidets 72-78'

Bridgemen 79-83'