BorisTS Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Because it is a BUGLE not a TUBA. It has a more conical shape throughout it's tubing than a Tuba does.Go to the manufacturers websites and see what they call them. You will find that they ARE in different families. Concert horns can have different pitches (i.e. Bb, C, F, E) but only BUGLES are pitched in G. There are no concert horns pitched in G that I am aware of and no Bugles in any key other than G. Oh, I did check the manufacturer's websites, as well as the G and B-flat horns I've used. Your argument falls apart when it turns out that, except possibly in the case of the trumpets, the G horns currently manufactured do NOT have a more conical bore than the B-flat horns. Both of my field euphoniums look the same except that the leadpipe on the G is longer, and pictures of other models in other brands appear to confirm this. The way Kanstul chooses to market its products isn't really relevant. G horns are sold to a very specific, small market. They probably don't make very many, or make them very often, so they're a seperate thing. Also, some people in this small market don't like to be called trumpet or tuba players, even if that's what they play. It makes sense to market this way. Concert horns generally aren't pitched in G because there's no need for it, but there's nothing to stop it from being done either. And again, concert horns have nothing to do with this. We're talking marching brass. There are and always have been bugles in other keys than G. The reason some people tend to think otherwise is because, way back when, somebody decided that all bugles in whatever circuit they were judging should be in G. That's it-- not that other bugles weren't bugles anymore. Visit the other thread on this for some more information here. I still call the horns we've used for decades bugles, whether that's accurate or not...but I'm just saying, trying to deny that it's a tuba is pretty sketchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Schmitt Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 http://www.kanstul.com/pages/parts%20pgs/pcbugles.html The second soprano listed is the customized version coats and scv have been using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintao Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 It would have been interesting to hear Reagan say he was a Tuba. Are you talking about ronald reagan?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shintao Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 The second soprano listed is the customized version coats and scv have been using. I'm 99% sure SCV uses the COL103 Bb horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Schmitt Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 Shintao: I'm 99% sure SCV uses the COL103 Bb horn. I could have been mistaken, (and could be again right now) but the difference I see on the website is basically the mouthpiece receiver. The one coats ended up with has the one from the powerbore soprano and the one on the col 103 they have listed is the normal, smaller one. They're really not too much different besides that. Both have giant bells and .470" bores. I know which one bluecoats ended up with as one of the guys who evaluated the prototype lives in my house. I was under the impression scv bought the same thing, but then again I wasn't there. I just thought it was neat that it was listed as the KMS103 Bb soprano. It's a great horn either way. Back to the topic... Having played many other trumpets for 14 years and a kanstul G soprano for 5 years I have no problem calling this thing and the people who play it sopranos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldschoolVK Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 http://www.kanstul.com/pages/parts%20pgs/pcbugles.htmlThe second soprano listed is the customized version coats and scv have been using. Ooops. My online parts catalog is somewhat out of date. We no longer produce the KMS 103. This horn went through a bit of an evolution: This began as a Bb version of our Powerbore Soprano Bugle, and was originally designated as the LBP 470 (Large Bore, .470 bore size). Later renamed the KMS 103, the name change simply conformed to our marching brass model numbers. The specs were the same. However, the design was later refined, and the result is today's COL 103. You can see that the prior design included the "heavy" receiver as the Powerbore is equipped with. We offer it as an option on the Coliseum. When we made the horns for SCV last summer, we were requested to build them with the heavy receiver. We refer to our Coliseum trumpet as a Bb Marching Trumpet, because it really does not resemble a traditional bugle, other than the fact that is features a bugle bell (the same as our Powerbore soprano!) This does indeed give it that throatier, darker sound, but the bore is that of a large bore trumpet, not a conical bugle. I noticed a distinct, overnight change in the way Vanguard sounded. I'm convinced that our Coliseum trumpet is the closest instrument (currently on the market) to a "Bb Bugle". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted March 16, 2004 Author Share Posted March 16, 2004 (edited) We refer to our Coliseum trumpet as a Bb Marching Trumpet, because it really does not resemble a traditional bugle, other than the fact that is features a bugle bell (the same as our Powerbore soprano!) This does indeed give it that throatier, darker sound, but the bore is that of a large bore trumpet, not a conical bugle. I'm convinced that our Coliseum trumpet is the closest instrument (currently on the market) to a "Bb Bugle". Thanks Charles for your insight on this subject. I think it really just comes down to semantics. When I play a trumpet in the community band I want to be called a "trumpet" player because that is what I am playing at the time. When I am playing with the Legend I want to be called a soprano bugle player because I am playing a soprano bugle. Like wise I have talked with other Contra players that are extremely insulted when they are called a "tuba' player when in fact they are not.They play a "contra" not a "tuba". Getting back to semantics its clear that Kanstul and Dynasty have a clear understanding of what is a bugle.You don't see them calling the instruments they build in b flat a bugle.They call them what they are a TRUMPET and a TUBA! Scott,I have found out since my original post that BAch and Yamaha both make and market a "g" trumpet.Designed as an alternate to the high F trumpet for the performance of Bach’s Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 (for example, the difficult high G-A trill can be played one step lower as an F-G trill). Well suited for baroque clarino parts. Optional slides available to tune to F. Might have to order one of those and see how it plays up against the Powerbore bugle. Edited March 16, 2004 by camel lips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willard Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Just to be safe, I will henceforth refer to these instruments as: "Big horns" and "little horns". Maybe that way, I won't step on any toes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mafields627 Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Are bugles really even bugles? The do have valves, after all. To most dictionaries, and the rest of the world, a bugle is a valveless instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellobecka05 Posted March 26, 2004 Share Posted March 26, 2004 as long as you don't call me an alto..lol...i went to audition for a junior corps, and they had mellophones, not alto horns! it made me want to cry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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