KidB Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 i haven't seen cavies and cadets head to head. but i have heard numerous reviews from friends that have seen both and they all tell me the same thing---- the cavies get bigger ovations, louder applause, and overall much greater reception---this even at Giants Stadium. what's the deal? if the cavies are getting such incredible crowd approval, what are the cadets doing to win GE by considerable margins? even cadet alumns seem to think the cavaliers have the edge here...but clearly the creative side of garfield's show makes them truly special. what strengths and weaknesses are making these shows distinguishable? do the cavies have a legitimate shot at the title? or will the cadets take it no matter what adjustments the green team makes? please, some experienced people who have seen both shows, shed some light on this for me, so when i see Nats this week i have a little to think about while im preparing for each performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 In my experiences this summer (Toledo and Indy) I would not say that The Cavaliers are getting much greater reception. They seem to be about even to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 well - I'd have to disagree with Patrick and say Cadets got less crowd response than Cavaliers at the shows I saw them together... As for your GE question - GE has been an issue for a while (at least to me) as it's become just another performance caption rather than judging the effectiveness of the program Cadets beat PR in GE Saturday night - visually & musically - and sorry, but I don't get that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMichael1230 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 well - I'd have to disagree with Patrick and say Cadets got less crowd response than Cavaliers at the shows I saw them together... As for your GE question - GE has been an issue for a while (at least to me) as it's become just another performance caption rather than judging the effectiveness of the programCadets beat PR in GE Saturday night - visually & musically - and sorry, but I don't get that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I dont get it either George. Between the three, PR, Cavies,and Cadets. I dont see anyone with an obvious edge in visual performance but I do see PR having an edge in visual design. As far as GE goes, traditional, in your face, over the top, good ol' GE goes to the Phantom Regiment, hands down, IMO. I see a lot of design and staging issues in Cadets show and I see nothing spectacular in Cavies show. I just dont get it. ~G~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 In response to the original post, let me add a few remarks. 1. Cadets and Cavies have two very different kinds of shows. I have seen both and yes, the Cavaliers do have the more typical drum corps ending (with their knock-down all-out blues tune just wailing away), even if it's not a traditional Cavies ending in recent years. But the first half of the Cavies show is very different and quite effective as well. It's great stuff, but the crowd really eats up the ending. 2. The Cadets show is also amazing and performed every bit as well or better, but the effects they are trying to generate are not typical audience-go-crazy type hits. The Cadets show will not be most peoples cup of tea, but to those who are getting it, the effects are just amazing. I believe the show borders on genius. But that's just me. Do I like Phantom's overall balance of drum corps-isms and fresh design a little better than Cavies and Cadets, yes...just a tad. But all 3 are very special shows, and they speak to the audience very differently. 3. We must remember that GE is not about how much applause a corps gets, or who the fans like better, or about appealing to the majority of fans vs the minority of fans. Obviously, these issues have been debated time and again. And I am not trying to start a war over GE, but the fact is that the quality of GE comes from a corps' ability to sell ever element, every aspect of their show. To be able to communicate their show in an effective way. People may not always find some shows exciting, but this does not mean they are not being communicated and effectively presented. It often means that show is simply not that person's cup of tea. In my opinion, all three of those shows are amazing and effective in communication to the audience. Phantom is giving the audience a fresh look at Gershwin, and a fresh look at a different type of Phantom Regiment. The tap dancing in the middle of their show is to die for. The Cavaliers are performing a wonderful look at the city of Chicago. The opening fanfare is hot, the middle of the show is haunting, and the end is just jammin' Madison style if you will. The Cadets are performing a unique and innovative show based on dreamscapes, and they have chosen music from the movie Kill Bill and Dancer in the Dark, along with some other things, to enhace the eerie, disturbing, weird, comical, and fun images that come from dreams and dual personalities. It's a wild show that is being communicated so effectively that it deserves the numbers in my book. And their performance levels are incredible. Cadets will win, but the next two will be close. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidB Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 In response to the original post, let me add a few remarks.1. Cadets and Cavies have two very different kinds of shows. I have seen both and yes, the Cavaliers do have the more typical drum corps ending (with their knock-down all-out blues tune just wailing away), even if it's not a traditional Cavies ending in recent years. But the first half of the Cavies show is very different and quite effective as well. It's great stuff, but the crowd really eats up the ending. 2. The Cadets show is also amazing and performed every bit as well or better, but the effects they are trying to generate are not typical audience-go-crazy type hits. The Cadets show will not be most peoples cup of tea, but to those who are getting it, the effects are just amazing. I believe the show borders on genius. But that's just me. Do I like Phantom's overall balance of drum corps-isms and fresh design a little better than Cavies and Cadets, yes...just a tad. But all 3 are very special shows, and they speak to the audience very differently. 3. We must remember that GE is not about how much applause a corps gets, or who the fans like better, or about appealing to the majority of fans vs the minority of fans. Obviously, these issues have been debated time and again. And I am not trying to start a war over GE, but the fact is that the quality of GE comes from a corps' ability to sell ever element, every aspect of their show. To be able to communicate their show in an effective way. People may not always find some shows exciting, but this does not mean they are not being communicated and effectively presented. It often means that show is simply not that person's cup of tea. In my opinion, all three of those shows are amazing and effective in communication to the audience. Phantom is giving the audience a fresh look at Gershwin, and a fresh look at a different type of Phantom Regiment. The tap dancing in the middle of their show is to die for. The Cavaliers are performing a wonderful look at the city of Chicago. The opening fanfare is hot, the middle of the show is haunting, and the end is just jammin' Madison style if you will. The Cadets are performing a unique and innovative show based on dreamscapes, and they have chosen music from the movie Kill Bill and Dancer in the Dark, along with some other things, to enhace the eerie, disturbing, weird, comical, and fun images that come from dreams and dual personalities. It's a wild show that is being communicated so effectively that it deserves the numbers in my book. And their performance levels are incredible. Cadets will win, but the next two will be close. Jonathan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that's what i was looking for. having not seen either phantom or cavies, this will give me better context for watching each show. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Programming effects for the judging community is not always going to be fan friendly. I have seen all 3 corps and it is close between all of them for the Music Effect caption. At Giants however, I would have probably had Cavies 1st. Maybe it is because I dont really understand all of the Cadets effects on one viewing. They are quite excellent however. The Cavies effects are more blatant and obvious, as are Phantoms. I love Phantoms show, but more than likely wouldnt have them over either corps back to back unless their performance was truly outstanding. Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 the cavies get bigger ovations, louder applause, and overall much greater reception---this even at Giants Stadium. Cavies get more applause than Cadets? When hasn't that been the case? Irrespective of the product on the field, Cavies, Devils, Vanguard, Regiment and Scouts usually get more applause. Chalk it up to rivalries, competition, politics and pretty much everything except objectivity. Wait a minute. I just thought of the answer to my question. Cadets got hearty applause when they won in 1993. Cadets vs. Star that year. What a dilemma for some! HH PS: I was in Giants Stadium (a Cadets home show) on Sunday and heard more cheers for Cadets than Cavies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoast7 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 In response to the original post, let me add a few remarks.1. Cadets and Cavies have two very different kinds of shows. I have seen both and yes, the Cavaliers do have the more typical drum corps ending (with their knock-down all-out blues tune just wailing away), even if it's not a traditional Cavies ending in recent years. But the first half of the Cavies show is very different and quite effective as well. It's great stuff, but the crowd really eats up the ending. 2. The Cadets show is also amazing and performed every bit as well or better, but the effects they are trying to generate are not typical audience-go-crazy type hits. The Cadets show will not be most peoples cup of tea, but to those who are getting it, the effects are just amazing. I believe the show borders on genius. But that's just me. Do I like Phantom's overall balance of drum corps-isms and fresh design a little better than Cavies and Cadets, yes...just a tad. But all 3 are very special shows, and they speak to the audience very differently. 3. We must remember that GE is not about how much applause a corps gets, or who the fans like better, or about appealing to the majority of fans vs the minority of fans. Obviously, these issues have been debated time and again. And I am not trying to start a war over GE, but the fact is that the quality of GE comes from a corps' ability to sell ever element, every aspect of their show. To be able to communicate their show in an effective way. People may not always find some shows exciting, but this does not mean they are not being communicated and effectively presented. It often means that show is simply not that person's cup of tea. In my opinion, all three of those shows are amazing and effective in communication to the audience. Phantom is giving the audience a fresh look at Gershwin, and a fresh look at a different type of Phantom Regiment. The tap dancing in the middle of their show is to die for. The Cavaliers are performing a wonderful look at the city of Chicago. The opening fanfare is hot, the middle of the show is haunting, and the end is just jammin' Madison style if you will. The Cadets are performing a unique and innovative show based on dreamscapes, and they have chosen music from the movie Kill Bill and Dancer in the Dark, along with some other things, to enhace the eerie, disturbing, weird, comical, and fun images that come from dreams and dual personalities. It's a wild show that is being communicated so effectively that it deserves the numbers in my book. And their performance levels are incredible. Cadets will win, but the next two will be close. Jonathan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoast7 Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I do see a clear edge in visual performance, because last I checked, achievement is what scoring is based on. Has anyone else noticed that the middle six minutes of the Cadets show moves at about 80 beats a minute? The drum solo drill moves a tiny bit, but its not really marching....its jogging in place. and then they stand in pods for the rest of the drum solo, and do a little bit of choreography. What is this achieving? Phantom moves a ton more than this! I haven't seen Cavaliers yet, but I'm sure they march circles around both corps...I've heard they're running quite a bit. Is content and responsibility no longer part of achieving? Or how about effect? How effective can incredibly slow marching be, especially when completely un-integrated? Just my opinion, going in to Nationals...... Hope they figure it out.... Go Phantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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