Slow Adam Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 DCI Div II & III Championships Week Assessment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sproCmurD Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 It was bad this year. I think the schedualing was horrible. Why would you make the corps perform during the heat of the day?? they are in uniform and on a turf field which reached temps. of 117 degrees. Let them perform at night under the lights. Come on it's the biggest performances of the season. Make it a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I didn't graduate Harvard or anything (despite my Harvard T-shirt) - but I didn't find it that complicated. Prelims --> divisional finals --> grand finals. Kinda like Qarterfinals, Semis and Finals, except with 2 different divisions involved in the first 2 rounds. What's so confusing about that? It was great for us to make FINALS for the first time in 15 years. The kids all got finalist medals and were justifiably proud of their accomplishment. We didn't expect to make it to Grand Finals - we were just thrilled with what we did do. If the format is set up to make more kids feel that way - then it's a big "thumbs up" to the format. No changes needed from my point of view. Back into post-tour hibernation mode now - zzzzzzzzz Cheers Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 The confusion is in the fact that ECJ and Spartans were crowned Division II Champions on different nights...now, by the letter of the rules ECJ is the champion. But why so many rounds?? prelims/finals worked fine for years, and why do we need 9 Div II corps in finals when there are only 9 Div II corps in competition?????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebot Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Because there are more div 3 corps than div 2 corps, and, as kusankusho said, it feels good for some of the div 3 corps to get "finalist" medals, even at the cost of there being two div 2 champions crowned. as i recall hearing, some of the div 2 corps directors were quite inflamed when this was discussed (one was actually forced to leave the meeting) last year.... but the div 3 corps have the voting power as a result of sheer numbers and passed it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slow Adam Posted August 24, 2005 Author Share Posted August 24, 2005 I think the kids can kind of see through this feel good thing, especially in Div II where EVERY corps makes finals. Even in Division III, to have 9 finalists is excessive too, that's half the competing corps!! (yes I know there are 24 Division I corps and 12 make finals) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I think the kids can kind of see through this feel good thing, especially in Div II where EVERY corps makes finals. Even in Division III, to have 9 finalists is excessive too, that's half the competing corps!! (yes I know there are 24 Division I corps and 12 make finals) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Adam. To quote the title of an old movie - "what's so bad about feeling good?" 6 "extra" Div 3 corps that can say they are finalists, times around 70 kids each - 420 happy kids (that I don't believe are as cynical as you say...) - that's a positive thing to me. Back in the day everyone at DCI competed in a single class and it was a big deal just to make top 25. The div 3 calibre corps went and did prelims and went home. The whole reason Div 3 exists is because we have no hope competing against SCV, PR etc, and DCI realized that it might be nice to be declared a champion or finalist within your reasonable competetive range. It's unreasonable for LER, Dutch, St. Johns to be compared to Div 1 or Div 2 corps for a finalist title. So why not split out a finals for Div 2 and 3 respectively? As for all Div 2 corps making finals - so what? DCI can't look at the corps that have declared the intention to field in Div 2 and THEN decide how many will make finals. Cheers Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 I didn't graduate Harvard or anything (despite my Harvard T-shirt) - but I didn't find it that complicated. Prelims --> divisional finals --> grand finals. Kinda like Qarterfinals, Semis and Finals, except with 2 different divisions involved in the first 2 rounds. What's so confusing about that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well... I kinda disagree. In Grand Finals, yes, the 2s and 3s were put head to head, but a Div. 3 champion was still crowned, which means that Grand Finals, like Finals and Prelims, still had two seperate divisions. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liebot Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 Hi Adam.To quote the title of an old movie - "what's so bad about feeling good?" 6 "extra" Div 3 corps that can say they are finalists, times around 70 kids each - 420 happy kids (that I don't believe are as cynical as you say...) - that's a positive thing to me. Back in the day everyone at DCI competed in a single class and it was a big deal just to make top 25. The div 3 calibre corps went and did prelims and went home. The whole reason Div 3 exists is because we have no hope competing against SCV, PR etc, and DCI realized that it might be nice to be declared a champion or finalist within your reasonable competetive range. It's unreasonable for LER, Dutch, St. Johns to be compared to Div 1 or Div 2 corps for a finalist title. So why not split out a finals for Div 2 and 3 respectively? As for all Div 2 corps making finals - so what? DCI can't look at the corps that have declared the intention to field in Div 2 and THEN decide how many will make finals. Cheers Jim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> right, but what's not a positive thing is there being two champions crowned in one division. although, i suppose if you're the rainbows and flowers and smiles for everyone type you could take the view that it means two corps get the joy of winning the championship - that's not true, though. it just means that neither corps really feels like they completely won - the same thing that happens when a tie occurs (and apparently that's not a good thing either, since DCI has made so many changes to the judging to try and ensure that ties don't happen). i'm all for people feeling good, but when it's an empty, meaningless "feel-good" thing at the cost of creating lots of controversy and convolution in results, i don't think it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusankusho Posted August 24, 2005 Share Posted August 24, 2005 right, but what's not a positive thing is there being two champions crowned in one division. although, i suppose if you're the rainbows and flowers and smiles for everyone type you could take the view that it means two corps get the joy of winning the championship - that's not true, though. it just means that neither corps really feels like they completely won - the same thing that happens when a tie occurs (and apparently that's not a good thing either, since DCI has made so many changes to the judging to try and ensure that ties don't happen). i'm all for people feeling good, but when it's an empty, meaningless "feel-good" thing at the cost of creating lots of controversy and convolution in results, i don't think it's worth it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't go to grand finals - and I obviously mis-understood (maybe it is more confusing than I thought after all). I thought the only title on Saturday was "Div 2-3 Grand Finals Champion" - not Div2 and Div3 champions. You are right - that doesn't make sense. Who is the "real" div 2 DCI champion then? If they dropped the distiinction and just had a Grand champion then it would make more sense to me. I'd still like to see the top div 2's get a crack at div 1 semis.... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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