Hardest visual program to date?

[yabetterbelieveit]

Cadets 1997..they were flying!!

Santa Clara 99 wasnt half bad, either.

[TommySopranoContra]

Cadets 1997..they were flying!!

Santa Clara 99 wasnt half bad, either.

heck yeah. SCV 99 I got to talk with some of the guys after the Giants Stadium performance and they said their drill (especially the folding block) had some of the hardest stuff that he's ever done.

[Phantom&Phitch]

I think Cadets '93 should be up there too. This is a little off topic, but my only problem with what they did visually that year is that it seems like there are a lot of halts when the difficult licks are played (granted the licks for cadets '93 would be hard to play sitting down).

Am I wrong, or does it seem that most corps are doing that these days? Nothing impresses me more than when a line lays down the hard parts while on the run.

so by your post, would you agree that its not impressive when a corps does difficult moves while not playing? ala cavies.. thats my biggest dispute with them....

[TommySopranoContra]

so by your post, would you agree that its not impressive when a corps does difficult moves while not playing? ala cavies.. thats my biggest dispute with them....

I agree with both of you!

[Sexyguardcap]

My friend boxing(Fred) and I had a knockdown dragout fight :) about this last month. So we watched the DVD's together.

Cavies 03- They march alot. Lots of formations. Maybe the most drill sets. But, If the horns are not playing while your marching lots of drill sets, how difficult would you rate that.

I think the Cavies shows from 00 to 03 were progressively more difficult. I think 04 and 05 were not as difficult as 03. I will have to find time to watch more corps.

We will watch Cadets and Devils next. So I guess right now Cavies 03.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Sexyguardcap

[jayboe172]

Hmmm

even though I hated this show 2002 and 2003 Cavaliers. but definitely 1998 Cadets and 2003 Blue Devils, and 2005 Cadets was another show that looked crazy to march.

Cadets 99 anyone?

Cadets 99 was awesome!!! I think thats one of the most under rated Drum Corps shows in the past 10 years. I'm just surprised someone said it before I did. b**bs

[jayboe172]

o yeah.....

The music bored me, but hands down gotta go with Cavies 02' and close runners up...

SCV 99'

Cadets 98'

Cavies 03' & 04'

Phantom Regiment 89'

[LockePoetic]

i've noticed the cavaliers do their hardest drill while not playing and other corps, such as the cadets or scv, do their hardest drill while playing. for that reason i can't say that any cavies show had the hardest drill.

I'm pretty sure you haven't watched or listened to the millenium version of The Cavaliers. Here's a list the what I could say were the most impressive (I'll get to difficulty in a second) drill moves in each of the past couple of years and what goes on musically.

2000 - Last about 2:30 you get the sick blender into the diamond cutter. There are a few drum licks in there like when the block runs apart but for the most part the Niagra theme is constant.

2002 - the fugue section is all brass and amazing visually

2003 - there's continuous brass playing for the first 3 minutes when a lot of the cool stuff happens. The whole deli slicer series is done while playing and the part at the end where the company front folds in on itself is done while playing.

2004 - the ending. Listen to it. Yeah those are horns playing the rock music while running across the field.

And as for the Cadets 2005 - I heard they were moving at around 220 during the drum feature. That's impressive. But they sure weren't playing and I don't know if you can count shuffling as marching.

Okay, here's the thing with difficulty - it's not how fast you move at certain segments of the show, it's not how cool certain parts are, it's doesn't even have to do with if you play during the effective drill moves. Difficulty of a show is holistic. How difficult is it to perform from the gun to parading the stands. Here's my criteria for judging a show -

- Velocity - from start to finish, how fast you move, how far you move, and how long do you move at that speed. Is there a long break in the ballad? Do you move within a confined space or are you all over the field?

- Direction changes - the extremes to which each member is asked to changed direction and step sizes abruptly. This is harder to do at high velocities.

- Number of sets - this is a huge factor in difficutly. If you only have to know 100 or so sets, I don't care how fast you're moving that's nothing compared to the guy who has to know over 200 places to be.

- How often you're playing - not fast licks, not loud chords, just how often is the horn on the face so that instead of breathing in you're blowing out air. Fast and loud does play into it, but i'd invite some old fogies out there to try running and sustaining a pitch at a mf. It ain't easy.

- Proximity - how tight the intervals are. it's hard to maintain focus when when a snare drum is about to take your legs out and a tuba is about to decapitate you.

- Guard (not a lot of people mention these girls and guys, but hey they're on the vis sheets) - drop spins vs. spinning a rifle and a sabre at the same time, spinning in the middle of nowhere or within and around the rest of the corps. The acrobatic and athletic nature of the guards has grown immensely, and a truly difficult book will try to push what people can do while throwing stuff in the air.

I'm not going to pretend to judge what shows are the hardest of all time, because honestly I haven't seen too much pre-2000 stuff. I came aware of drum corps when I was a freshman in high school. But I think these standards aren't too far off, and from them someone who has seen a lot of drum corps might be able to use them to decide on the most difficult shows. Of the shows I am most familiar with, it seems like Cavaliers 2001 would be the hardest. There was intense demands in velocity, direction changes, and interval spacing throughout the entire show. The guard book was all over the place too. And like, hate, or forget what they were playing, they were blowing air for most of those 11:30 minutes.

2003 is a close second because of the number of charts they had to learn, but they got to sit down for half the 3rd mvt.

[rut-roh]

All this talk about certain corps standing still while playing the hard stuff, etc. is all just exaggerated nonsense. You can pretty much pick a show from any corps and see examples where they play very demanding passages while on the move and then you'll find others where they stand still and play. Every corps.

And then people will totally blow things out of proportion mostly because they just don't like that corps. It's rather comical, actually. I heard some people making fun of the 1997 Cadets because they stood still to play that ridiculously difficult opening statement. As if NOTHING ELSE in the show was demanding and played on the move. Moronic. Put down the stop watches, stop counting notes, put the metronomes away and ENJOY THE SHOW.

[Matt_S]

I'm pretty sure you haven't watched or listened to the millenium version of The Cavaliers. Here's a list the what I could say were the most impressive (I'll get to difficulty in a second) drill moves in each of the past couple of years and what goes on musically.

2000 - Last about 2:30 you get the sick blender into the diamond cutter. There are a few drum licks in there like when the block runs apart but for the most part the Niagra theme is constant.

2002 - the fugue section is all brass and amazing visually

2003 - there's continuous brass playing for the first 3 minutes when a lot of the cool stuff happens. The whole deli slicer series is done while playing and the part at the end where the company front folds in on itself is done while playing.

2004 - the ending. Listen to it. Yeah those are horns playing the rock music while running across the field.

Exactly. The 2002 fugue section was the first example that jumped into my mind. Probably the neatest move I've ever seen, clearly very difficult, and the hornline played throughout.

I've heard this knock several times against Cavaliers. Funny thing too, I also hear it about other groups that Gaines writes for, such as Carmel HS. Yet it simply isn't true. My theory is that some people see these awesome and challening moves, recognize them as such, but they don't want to admit it. Since they can't attack the move itself, they have to attack something else, like alleging that that corps "doesn't play". I don't get it. Like rut-roh said, just sit back and enjoy it. Cavaliers are in a class by themselves when it comes to entertaining visual programs that are some of the most challenging in the activity. If you're not allowing yourself to be entertained by it, and especially if you're making up excuses for it, then I'm sorry to say that you're missing out.