Carl306 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Right.An what is so bad about having to actually think about what you are seeing a hearing once in a while? While most shows today don't require deeper analysis to "get" the presentation, I feel most shows are designed to offer more beyond their thrilling veneers (if one should choose to dig deeper...). Why are so many opposed to entertainment that requires thought; that challenges the viewer to seek to understand? Are we really that lazy as a society that we must resist, reject and complain about anything other than mindless entertainment? We're capable of far more... M Not trying to come off as rude, and if I am I apologize in advance. I wouldn't necessarily say that many are opposed to entertainment that requires thought. They are moreso opposed to a show that doesn't make sense. I personally don't want to spend my time (and after I ageout, my money for actual tickets) during a show trying to figure out what is going on, what the designers are trying to tell me, or what the drill is supposed to symbolize. I'd rather be flat out entertained by enjoying the music, awing at the "neat" drill moves, and having my face ripped off by a wall of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedodger Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) A lot of people on this board throw this word around a lot, esoteric... "confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle". So yeah, what in your minds, makes a show like this. A show that I would call esoteric follows the definition precisely. If you can't go to a good record store and find the recording on the shelf, it's probably esoteric. The enlightened inner circle, in this sense, are the psuedo-intellectual program designers who are probably band directors elsewhere and have access to the latest concert band repertoire or they may even have certain charts in their vast libraries that people have never heard. Have you ever wondered why certain music sells well and other music doesn't? It's called simplicity. The majority of people don't want to think when they want to be entertained. Thinking is work. Most of us do this at work and we get paid fairly well for our thinking. I don't want to pay someone to make me think--I'm used to charging money for it. Pop culture has this nailed down. Give people pretty faces and add a few simple chords, maybe some half-###ed intelligible lyrics and people will buy it. A friend of mine in a ska/reggae group (who also marched corps) realized this. People don't want to hear complex chords and polyrhythms. People only pay to be entertained. The entertainment business understands this and the business world knows that consumer will not buy anything they do not want to buy. This is why some TV shows last 10-15 years and others only three weeks. Some broadway shows go over the 7000 mark and others don't see five showings. People don't care what an entertainer has to say, people are only interested in the product. When a product isn't in demand, it is discontinued; the world moves on. Edited January 12, 2006 by ravedodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) One of the underlying problems with show design nowadays is shows aren't esoteric to begin with...they're made to be by long, "thought provoking" show announcements that proclaim corps "X" presentation is a deep, tuneful dissertation on the soul/nature/meaning of human being. This starts the ball rolling on people feeling left out of the loop when they don't see these things. This is when you run into trouble and start to lose people a bit. Does that mean that I suggest people play "Turkey In The Straw" and just write one sentence about a show? Nope. But a modicum of restraint should factor in as well. Drum corps is art, surely...but it's not so much an art form that it's ever going to be akin to a "#### Christ" (or what have you) in a confrontational nature that these denouements would lead you to believe....the uniformity of the kids marching and playing prevents a certain part of that occuring. Can drum corps agitate, enrage, soothe? Sure it can. But it does it on its own two feet....from the performance....and each persons reaction varies....not from some deep show concept or description. There doesn't need to be some sort of "what am I missing" element to shows...that "esoteric" bit only serves to put the designer (and therefore, the performer) at an arms length from the crowd...which (IMO) is the ultimate antithesis of what the idiom is all about. Edited January 12, 2006 by bawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontwan2know Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 By and large, drum corps is a terrible medium for conveying "ideas". Anyone who's been to an early season critique and seen staffs spending their entire time explaining their "concept" to the judges can vouch for this. Conversely, drum corps is a fantastic medium for communicating emotions and generating excitement. I'm all for pushing the boundaries of what's possible but there's also something to be said for recognizing your strengths and playing to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedodger Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 By and large, drum corps is a terrible medium for conveying "ideas". Anyone who's been to an early season critique and seen staffs spending their entire time explaining their "concept" to the judges can vouch for this. Conversely, drum corps is a fantastic medium for communicating emotions and generating excitement. I'm all for pushing the boundaries of what's possible but there's also something to be said for recognizing your strengths and playing to them. Ha! Perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravedodger Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 What's bad is when a corps does an esoteric-type show and doesn't play the music well. When perfomance is off, hidden meanings and thoughts won't come through, excepting the simplest of emotions such as excitement and sadness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMello1 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I wouldn't necessarily say that many are opposed to entertainment that requires thought. They are moreso opposed to a show that doesn't make sense. I think that is exactly what you are saying. "They" oppose shows that don't make sense to them...or, in other words, shows that would require some thought or work to "get". I personally want to have a range of show types to view each season. I think it would be very bad for the creative direction and growth of what we do if "esoteric" shows were not fielded. Just like with all art forms, there need to be designers and artists that push the envelope and attempt to re-define exactly what it is we are doing here. That doesn't mean these new ideas are or should consititute the bulk of the programming. In fact, they better not. But there should be a range of shows: some that are all veneer, a majority with varying levels of depth, storyline, intent and "esoteric" qualities, and then a few that push the definition of taste, appeal and accessibility. (I'm not trying to be confrontational or offenseive either...just reacting to what you said...I agree with most of what you are saying...) M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) I really don't know that an 11 minute drum corps show can give us more than we can handle intellectually, no matter how its programmed. Certainly, there are drill moves to see, phrases to pick up, etc on repeat viewings...but the emotional and cognitive impact doesn't really change that much. (IMO, of course) There are limits as to what you can present in this medium, and how you can present it...it's much better at conveying a large sense of mood or emotion than something pinpoint specific. Trying to go against the intrinsic nature of the activity muddies the water sometimes, I think. Edited January 12, 2006 by bawker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMello1 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 What's bad is when a corps does an esoteric-type show and doesn't play the music well. When perfomance is off, hidden meanings and thoughts won't come through, excepting the simplest of emotions such as excitement and sadness. Well, I think this can be said for any type of show, really. But this is especially true when a group atttempts a show or theme that is considered "mature", but their performance abilities are not. Very few ensembles have the skills to pull of what might be considered "esoteric" shows. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMello1 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 By and large, drum corps is a terrible medium for conveying "ideas". Anyone who's been to an early season critique and seen staffs spending their entire time explaining their "concept" to the judges can vouch for this. Conversely, drum corps is a fantastic medium for communicating emotions and generating excitement. I'm all for pushing the boundaries of what's possible but there's also something to be said for recognizing your strengths and playing to them. I don't at all agree that drum corps is not good at communicating "ideas". In fact, I think many of the best shows of today effectively communicate "ideas" (what exactly does that mean, anyway??). M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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