Getting a handle on what matters. . .

[madscout96]

Nice post, a decent amount of positive energyI too, wish we could "all just get along".

I take issue with your analogy though:

____________________________

I can think of one example, and only one example, of an industry that has taken over the entertainment world AFTER adding voice. . .

The movie industry.

Were silent pictures unique? Yep.

Were they the best possible at the time? Yep.

Were they entertaining? Yep.

Were they limited? Yep.

Are all movies today great? Nope.

Are movies today better than the silent pictures? Many.

Is there still value in the silent pictures? Yes. . . but their time has passed.

I'm not sure this can be compared directly to drum corps because there already exists something where voice, amps, electronics, woodwinds, everything is allowed. Marching Band exists at the same time that drum corps does. Silent films were made because for a long time they didn't have the technology to add sound to them. Drum corps has the technology available to add all those extras that marching band has, but chooses NOT to use them. And by choosing not to, drum corps differentiates itself from marching band. I fear, as do many other people, that drum corps and marching band will just become the same thing if electronics and woodwinds are added. Some believe that that's already happened with the addition of amplification. Was there a public outcry from movie buffs back when "The Jazz Singer" was released? Or were they absolutely thrilled with being able to see and hear things on the screen? I'm not sure if the term "silent film" was even used until "talkies" came out.

We have lots of different ensembles in this world. Orchestras, Jazz big bands, marching bands, string quartets, gamelan, drum corps. We add woodwinds or electronics to a drum corps, we're not taking something and making it better. We're not necessarily making it worse either. We're just making it something else that already exists. Films were still films when they added sound. THEY took something and added it to film, making it better (or worse, if it's a Pauly Shore movie). They did not make it something else that already existed.

Whatever drum corps becomes in the future, the ultimate achievement is still the growth of the members, the friendships made, the satisfaction creatively of the staff, and the entertainment of the audience -- all in quest of competitive and performance excellence.

I agree, although "the audience" may be a whole different group of people. But of those "ultimate achievements" you mentioned, are there any that will not be attainable in the long run if drum corps stayed the way it was and didn't add any new instruments or electronic devices? Is it NECESSARY to turn drum corps into something that is no longer unique in order to do this?

[E-Daddy]

Good post.

And let's remember that Drum Corps is not G vs. Bb horns, singing versus vocal silence, amps versus no amps.

It's about the life experience the members get, it about preparing for the rest of their lives. It's about PERFORMANCE EXCELLENCE (which transcends everything we all do, either today or in the future).

[rut-roh]

Despite what some people say about DCP, and realizing that DCI winter meetings time tends to enflame the passions of the fanbase this time of year, there has been some EXCELLENT discussion on these boards lately. Intelligent, thoughtful, passionate, and (for the most part) respectful. Keep it up, folks! It's great to read and participate in.

:)

[RobH]

I like how Chuck thinks - great thread!

As one who related to his comparisons of self, drum corps, the past, present, future, it's all supposed to evolve - hopefully into something better than it was!

Sure, drum corps is different - heck, we oldsters are different! The world we live in is different!

The participants today know only their current experience, and 20 years from now they'll have a different perspective on drum corps if they're still interested/care/stay involved.

Back in "my day" drum corps was quite different than today - more military-ish, more inspections, more focus on M&M (marching & maneuvering), nobody smiled or danced on the field, there was a tick system, a color pre, a concert number (park and blow!), starting guns/one minute guns, heavier involvement by VFW/American Legion/Catholic churches, and the participants came from the same town or local area.

Now it's far more difficult for the participants in terms of athleticism, it's way more expensive, the shows are designed differently than in the past.

Yet, I think a big problem today is a "vanilla-zation" where most corps tend to look, sound, and execute the same - with a few exceptions, most drum corps, from the fan standpoint, do the same stuff with the same equipment, show designers and uni designers and seem to be less "original"

In short, there seems to be a loss of individual drum corps "identity" - it's hard to explain and quantify, but those who understand this know what I'm saying - those that don't, I'll leave for someone much smarter than I to explain!

And in that sense, it's very similar to the NFL - everyone has the "west coast offense" and the same defenses, and clearly, football is different than it was 30 years ago. The only way you can tell the teams apart is by the color of their unis! Some may like it more, some less.

Just like drum corps!

And just like life!

So what matters? Well, I'd say that the experience matters, the friendships matter, the self-discipline matters, the hard work/sacrifice/dedication/focus/practice matters, and the quest to be better than we were still matters!

Edited February 2, 2006 by RobH

[JimF-LowBari]

Agree with this being a great thread. Actually makes you think before typing.

I've been involved with antique cars for even longer than drum corps (30+ years for each) and there are a lot of simularities between the two in facing challenges and change. Over the last few decades the cost of owning an A.C. have gone up so much that the average backyard mechanic can't afford to restore one on his own (how my dad started). In fact, the older/rarer ones are worth so much they aren't even driven any more. A lot are even seen as investments instead of something to be driven. (Check out the auctions on Speed Channel to see what I mean.) So now younger people are finding less older cars to restore or the money to do it. Replace "older cars to restore" with "drum corps to join" and hope you'll see one simularity.

So how does an activity (DC or A.C.) change to survive newer challenges?

IMO, it comes down to three interrelated points:

1) How does the activity measure success? IOW, what indicates improvement or failure?

2) Is the activity willing to give up something that makes it unique to improve or survive? If so, what is it and what is considered "going too far".

3) Is any change being judged on what seems to be best for that activity and that activity alone. Or is the activity just following another group that appears to be more successful.

For the national antique car group I belong to, changes were geared to involve people who don't own old cars instead of car owners only. For this group success means more members who are interested in preserving old cars and their history instead of just owning old cars. There was thought of including Hot Rods in meets but that was considered going too far and would mean losing something that made the group unique.

As far as Drum Corps is concerned I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts on D.C. and my three above points. (Some have already given them.)

[GMichael1230]

As usual, an insightful, thought provoking post from Chuck. I agree with it...somewhat...however, one can not downplay, dismiss, or even ignore the fact that drum & bugle corps is indeed defined by brass and percussion. Should we march with no instruments and still call ourselves drum & bugle corps ?? The same experiences mentione, all valuable, meaningful, and totally the reason for the passion for the activity........can be had with the members of a swim team, a 4-H club, a chess club , and a sewing circle. No the experiences, people and what not are not what defines drum & bigle corps, they are what enhances it, makes us yearn fo rit, makes it run thorugh our blood, but the fact is...it wouldnt even begin to exist without the instruments we played, desired to learn or became aware of then embraced as we grew up.

Adding wood winds, voice..etc.....changes the dynamic of the idiom. People are not required to jump on the band wagon and just support it becuase they used to "do it" .....A) They never bargained for these fundamental changes when marching, and B ) nobody has to follow blindly something they have no passion for.

The time will come when the activity will need to evaluate itself, decide what it wants to be, where it wants to go..and just do it ! It can not be called drum & bugle corps anymore, and it cant expect to have the same loyal following to the alien artform.......

Changes are inevitable, evolution is forthcoming and cant be stopped. However, once the fundamentals are destroyed, the foundations are altered, and the intent becomes different...you have to also expect those that once supported something else to disappear...There is already a place for this typr of entertainment. A place for woodwinds, a place for trombones, a palce for singing through microphones...etc...etc.......once they infiltrate the drum corps idiom, where is the place for drum and bugle corps ???

~G~

[bawker]

Perhaps...and this is a large leap, so bear with me...we need to let DCI totally do its own thing. It's almost impossible to think of Madison or the Cavaliers as a unit with woodwinds, but maybe that's what needs to take place.

DCA is expanding. Soon there will be a national presence for all-age groups.

Maybe DCI needs to do these things Chuck speaks of in order to keep itself afloat amongst the million and ten things 14-21 yr. olds can do...to reinvent itself as marching band. It's not like we all haven't seen most of it coming over the years.

I only have issues if we totally lose the art form as a brass and percussion medium, I guess.

If we can count on DCA to preserve that (and I don't know that we can, I have little experience with it as a circuit; in some instances it looks as if they are just following behind DCI at a slower pace), and to keep it alive, then so be it.

Before you jump the gun, I'm not trying to promote this as an "us v. them" idea. Rather a way to keep what some want alive for a few more decades, while letting DCI go ahead and do what it's going to, anyway.

DCA has been around much longer than DCI, anyway. If we're going to talk of tradition...maybe we should put it where it belongs, and go from there.

I don't think it will be easy, though. :)