Electronics

[Jeff Ream]

You're reading a lot into what I said. All I meant was that some people have made up their minds already, no matter what changes are made to the quality of the amplification. I should think we could agree on that. It's the idea itself that has some upset, no matter how well that idea is executed. I mean, I can't speak for Jeff Ream, but it doesn't seem likely that he would drop his protest even if next year amped sound were perfectly blended with the ensemble and could reach the entire audience equally.

actually if amped voice were eliminated i'd probably come back. I am sure some balance issues would annoy me, but i could deal with it. Now, when it comes ot up with people shows, i've seen enough on the band level...no matter how well or not well they were performed...to know that it sucks.

i like how everyone is trying to state my opinion for me, when no one really has it.

all along i have said amps were bad because of what will follow...voice, rapping, opening the door to other electronics. amps are pandoras box.

if you take amps away....which i can accept with the pit, i just think all the excuses made why they are needed were ######## and 2 years has proven me correct....you eliminate all of the options for other stuff mentioned by many people and requested by certain powers that be sponsored by wherever their hometown is this year.

as for the analogies i made...they do hold water. drum corps was accosutic...the minute you add ANYTHING that allows amplified sound to be mixed with accoustic sound, as has been pointed out many times by people better trained at sound technology than me, you are creating an issue similar to mixing oil with water.

the funny thing is more and morepeople are coming here to ##### how they dont like it, yet we keep hearing is "it's the same folks over and over again"....and really it's the opposite.

Edited April 7, 2006 by jeffsnewjetta

[no_itsnotadash]

Instead of ruining what the majority of drum corps fans love... why dont they hold the BOA finals in August?

[ekleve]

You said:

So, what you're saying is that those people have no idea what they're talking about. What is that, if not a complete denial that those people may have a point? What is that, if not a marginalization of those people's opinions? Basically you said, "Those people are idiots. They don't know what they are talking about." Then, you added the "that's too bad" part. As if, in disagreeing with you, they are not merely wrong but also deserving of your pity. That is, it's a pity they aren't as enlightened as you are.

I can tell you from experience that there really are people like that. Last year at finals there was a whole row of at least five people right next to me that got up and walked out of the stands when BD entered the field, all three nights. And then they came back to their seats as soon as BD's show was over. I asked them "Don't you want to stay and see the show?" The lady that was leading the pack said "Not this show" with an angry look on her face. Now, this wasn't just somebody who said "Well, this show doesn't really thrill me all that much, so I'm gonna go grab a hot dog and a soda." She was literally ###### at the fact that a corps would have to nerve to use amplified vocals.

Two things. First of all, if I'm going to pay that much money to see a drum corps show, I'm going to stay in the stands and watch the show!!! I had the same prejudices about that show as almost everybody else upon entering the stadium. But you know what? I like the show. You know how I know I liked it? During semis and finals I still looked forward to seeing it when BD took the field. If I don't like a show I am tempted to get up and walk around when that corps takes the field. But I can tell you truthfully that I was glued to my seat when BD came on. No matter what prejudice I have about a certain corps or a certain show, I will ALWAYS admit when I like a show.

Second thing. I gaurantee there was NOT ONE KID in that entire corps who thought to themselves "Screw the 70's and 80's alumni!! I know how to get to them! I'll march Blue Devils and use amplified vocals! I hate their traditions and everything they stand for, so now I'm going to take a big crap on them and laugh as they leave the stadium!!!" Nope, they had as much passion about their show as you did when you marched. In fact, many would argue that they worked way harder than you did when you marched back in the good ol' days.

If the entire decision were up to me, would I get rid of amplified vocals? Yes, I would. But I wouldn't get rid of amplified pit. I think that is an improvement if done right. And nothing amplified has jeopordized my love of drum corps. People always talk about how much DCI has changed, but not enough people talk about how much it has stayed beautifully the same all these years. When I watch the 1985 Legacy DVD I see the same wonderful thing I see today: Brass, percussion and guard, and the love and dedication that goes into it. Everything else is just semantics.

Edited April 7, 2006 by ekleve

[MikeD]

So, why would directers and designers employ things that a lot of people think sucks?

Because maybe the people who decide what to program do not think it sucks. There are those out there who still think using a pit at all sucks...and not having guard wear the same uni as the brass and percussion sucks....etc.

[MikeD]

This is true.

However, what you're ignoring are the new elements of shows that have popped up very recently due to allowing amps. Like the rapping, and the narration, and the individual singers. Those have changed the face of DCI shows. Not for the better, IMO.

As you say, it's your opinion. IMO, for instance, Crown 2004 is one of the best shows of the past decade...and I loved the Cascades last year, and the Cadets too once they ironed out their mic quality issues. Not to mention the improvement in the quality of the pit sound, esp lower marimba, vibes, and the use of normally quieter percussion accessories.

But anyway, this thread is about allowing certain electronic/other instruments on the dc field. Other than pianos, I'm against them all. And, as others have pointed out, a piano has limitations on its usage that have nothing to do with a rulebook. If a person can bang on it (percussion) or vibrate his/her lips in a small cup (brass) to make a sound, then we can talk about allowing it.

Permit them all....that's MHO.

[MikeD]

Well, actually, DCI exists exactly BECAUSE the corps couldn't change the rules before DCI came along. The old vets wouldn't allow the corps to change the rules, so the corps formed DCI.

That's an interesting re-write of history. Hmmmmm.

There have been rules changes forever, even pre-DCI, esp in brass. Permitting valves on horns was one, then the slip-slide and rotor...plus the use of different voices...in the 50's there was a very narrow range of sound permitted...see Jeff Mitchell's history of brass. It took rule changes to get items such as contras on the field...before DCI.

[MikeD]

Jeff, you KNOW you're wasting your time and typing. Analogies are to MikeD like oil is to water.

For post-modernists like him, language and descriptions of things are more important and real than the things themselves. If a drum corps adds woodwinds, to us it's become something different. But to a post-mod, if a drum corps adds woodwinds, but still CALLS itself a drum corps, then Presto! It still IS a drum corps. It doesn't matter that the fundamental essence of the corps is now different, just by saying it is the same makes it the same.

That's why he doesn't get that adding amplification, or woodwinds, or whatever to drum and bugle corps is the same as a baseball pitcher tossing a football past a batter.

No, that analogy is irrelevant, that's why I disagree with it, esp as he said it regarding amps....not adding a new instrument.

Even at that, it's irrelevant. Adding new voices does not change the heart and soul of drum corps...great music and visual performances for fans and a summer of high level experiences for the members on all sorts of levels.

Drum corps is what those charged with defining it want it to be...as always.

[DrumCorpsFan27]

Dale, that comparison fails since university baseball uses aluminum bats and we know that the pros want to be just like them.

How about this analogy then...let's allow softball pitchers the option of throwing a regular baseball. Hey, the two sports are so similar already, why not?

[MikeD]

You said:

So, what you're saying is that those people have no idea what they're talking about. What is that, if not a complete denial that those people may have a point? What is that, if not a marginalization of those people's opinions? Basically you said, "Those people are idiots. They don't know what they are talking about." Then, you added the "that's too bad" part. As if, in disagreeing with you, they are not merely wrong but also deserving of your pity. That is, it's a pity they aren't as enlightened as you are.

But what you wrote about me a page or so back is NOT doing that to me and MY POV (and those like me)????

[MikeD]

OK, everyone, MikeD and rut-roh have invented a new game - basefootball. We must abolish the game of baseball immediately. Get Commish Selig on the phone, now!

Oh, but you are not marginalizing us with a derogatory posting???