PTB MELLO Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 This will be PTB's first year in competiton in the mini corps division and we are very excited about being part of a great night of music. Well here the question...Is it me or is the cost of performing out of hand? Your looking at the basic $100 fee for DCA and that has been the standard for quite some time now.....but the rights fees..your looking at $100-$200 a song,and the insurance for an evening for a 1 time event,your looking at $200-$300 just for that night. If you add it all up your group pays $500-$600 for a 10 minute performance. WHAT?????? Is there a better way to do this? Is it me or is this just nuts? Are we pricing out other groups from competing? Can some explain this to me. I think this is expensive,or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_B Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 It is expensive.... We had to change our show in August because they wanted $800 for the rights of a certain song. We were only going to play a section of it, as part of a medley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugada Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Don't forget about paying the goombas to take out the knee's of your competators, paying off the unions and the judges. It's out of control! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdisney Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 The DCA fee and permission to arrange and perform fees are for a whole season, so if you ONLY perform one time then yes, it would be pretty steep. Do you not do any other performances with that music, parades or standstills or anything? Most groups carry their own insurance now, don't they? I know out here at least you can't even get a rehearsal site usually without having proof of insurance. $800 for one song is pretty steep; but why did you not know about it until August? Did you submit the paperwork late to the publisher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassomaniac Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) On what basis, in the copyright law, is the need for a "right to arrange fee"? Does anyone know? I do understand that, if the performance is going to be recorded for sale, there is an issue with publishing and recording rights. But, if the song is used only for a live performance (as in mini-corps) is there such a provision in the copyright law? Club bands do it every day. That's why clubs and other venues pay a fee. It's been a long time since I studied it, and I know that the law has been updated since then, but I don't remember this. Someone help me; I guess I just don't remember it correctly. Edited June 17, 2006 by brassomaniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 The DCA fee and permission to arrange and perform fees are for a whole season, so if you ONLY perform one time then yes, it would be pretty steep. Do you not do any other performances with that music, parades or standstills or anything? Most groups carry their own insurance now, don't they? I know out here at least you can't even get a rehearsal site usually without having proof of insurance. $800 for one song is pretty steep; but why did you not know about it until August? Did you submit the paperwork late to the publisher? The cost of doing drum corps business is not cheap as we all know, The Thunderbirds have been performing DCI and DCA contest exhibitions for the last 14 years and have dealt with this every year, as the compeditive corps do,...............however, groups like Ghost Riders, Mass Brass, and other independant groups have this steep one time cost, as you rightly point out,................... Those who know me will tell you I have been faced with this argument inside our own corps, with the board of Mini Corps Associates, and see both sides, however, in this litigious society we live in, it is the right thing to do, and I believe DCA does the right thing to require this. I hope it is evenly administered and further, checked out at the time of performing/recording...............but as it turns out, it can be cost prohibitive, and requires much planning,................and could even be viewed as exclusionary, which in fact, it is not. In my view, this situation effects the mini corps the most, as there is no fee for the performance, no gate split, nothing,....................... On the question of the $800.00,........................the writers of that arrangement were contacted at the begining of the season as always,,...............we actualy submit many requests and choose our book with consideration given to the costs to "Arrange and Perform", a lesson we learned long ago from long conversations with the folks from Minn. Brass. You can actually pick tunes that are in the public domain, due to their age, such as one of our tunes this year, "American Patrol". But you can't find these things out until you explore the individual song. In $800.00 case, we had a great chart ready to put out for the contest, but we had not performed at any other venues where licencing was required, so we never purchased those "Rights,.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) On what basis, in the copyright law, is the need for a "right to arrange fee"? Does anyone know? I do understand that, if the performance is going to be recorded for sale, there is an issue with publishing and recording rights. But, if the song is used only for a live performance (as in mini-corps) is there such a provision in the copyright law? Club bands do it every day. That's why clubs and other venues pay a fee. It's been a long time since I studied it, and I know that the law has been updated since then, but I don't remember this. Someone help me; I guess I just don't remember it correctly. You need the rights to 'Arrange and Perform", then DCA or DCI or whoever, recieved a general "Mechanical" permission, kinda like a bar get a general licence for music or a jukebox.............................. The question that always gets asked of me in this argument "well if you know so much, how come the brass emsebles don't have to get these things",...............the true answer is, I don't know,................... but I suspect it lies somewhere in that DCA packages and Markets the Mini Corps Contest, and not all of I&E,...............................anyone? Edited June 17, 2006 by Gary Matczak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melligene Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 You need the rights to 'Arrange and Perform", then DCA or DCI or whoever, recieved a general "Mechanical" permission, kinda like a bar get a general licence for music or a jukebox..............................The question that always gets asked of me in this argument "well if you know so much, how come the brass emsebles don't have to get these things",...............the true answer is, I don't know,................... but I suspect it lies somewhere in that DCA packages and Markets the Mini Corps Contest, and not all of I&E,...............................anyone? Trust me on this,(and I agree with Gary)...............If there is anyone out there who has researched these logistics as Gary Matczak has please step forward. Gary is, and has been, our Business mananger for quite some time and also Instrumental in helping create the MCA and a continual proponant (spl) of our activity no matter what the venue. I cannot even guess at his monetery contribution besides.(yes there are others out there also doing the same thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassomaniac Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Trust me on this,(and I agree with Gary)...............If there is anyone out there who has researched these logistics as Gary Matczak has please step forward. Gary is, and has been, our Business mananger for quite some time and also Instrumental in helping create the MCAand a continual proponant (spl) of our activity no matter what the venue. I cannot even guess at his monetery contribution besides.(yes there are others out there also doing the same thing). I don't question any of that at all, and as I said, it's been a long time since I studied this. I just don't understand why a performance group that is not recording a tune would have to pay a right to perform their own (or purchased) arrangement of it. I'm sure that there is some clause I'm missing, or else DCA wouldn't be charging a fee. Or, perhaps ASCAP and BMI have waived their venue fees in exchange for this fee on the performing units? I thought that the idea of the copyright law was to encourage the performance of music, and that royalties were accomplished through publishing and recording fees as well as broadcast and venue fees? Does DCA record the contest? That would change the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassomaniac Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 (edited) After taking a brief brief peek at the copyright law, I believe that the fee may be to cover a "derivitive work" which is what you got from your arranger, who prob also owes additional fees if he sells the arrangement to someone else. Can't be a mechanical (for mini-corps, anyway); that's for making a recording and it's fixed at an amount per copy. According to the law, the copyright owner owns the right to produce all derivitive works, and would get a fee to let you do it. It seems to me that you run into problems with this only when you're going to record your group, but DCA prob has an agreement to include the mini-corps. I still don't understand what exempts everyone else in I&E. I think that bands that play clubs (and prob parades too) are covered by venue fees, where they pay for hosting the various music groups that "cover" copyrighted material. I'm going to look at it further. I'm shooting from the hip a bit; anyone with a correction, or more details, please chime in. Edited June 17, 2006 by brassomaniac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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