R.A.M. Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I have to agree. Here's a concept: If it really is truly all about judging each individual show for its own merits, and the judges are truly capable of doing that, then the performance order should be RANDOM every night, until finals. Give EVERYONE a chance to perform under the lights, or at least an equal chance. Want to fill the stands for an ENTIRE NIGHT? (= more consistent souvie sales, more concession sales, etc.) then have the corps in random order - you'd have to SHOW UP for an entire show to make sure you saw the ones you wanted to see. In Elizabeth the stands were not even half full for the first few corps, and of course full by dark. I feel really disheartened for the corps who don't get that chance. And at least one of "those early shows" got a standing O immediately. Imagine how the judges might react to 2X the number of fans screaming and clapping during a show for any given corps, with the corps feeding off the energy of a larger crowd .....me thinks scoring would be much different. I don't think a judge is going to go on the record saying that order of appearance doesn't matter. From one Cavalier alumnus to one Blue Devil Alumnus, I'd be delighted if the Blue Devils would volunteer to go on first at DCI finals. After all, It really doesn't matter. Or does it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancerlady Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Well I've always believed that when you go on is important and who you go on after is as important as well..I can tell you that in 1986 we (27th Lancers) went on in semi finals after the Blue Devils and THAT didn't help us at all...We missed finals by like 2/10th's of a point. I can't even remember how that happened exactly. Especially since BD won that year. So yeah just from experiencing that myself I'd say it does affect the judges scoring. Edited July 10, 2006 by Lancerlady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I think that both sides are right. In other words it matters some, but not usually enough to make a difference. Take last night. The Cavies went on a bit early, but they were in the right group of corps. It might have been different if they went on when Blue Stars went on. The theory of 'ranking and rating' can get a little screwed up sometimes. When Star went on first at nearly every show we attended in 85' it caused some screwy scoring at times. I remember talking to friends in corps who went on much later in the evenings and they called it the 'Star Effect'. They gained as much as a point when we were at the show. But it didn't seem to change the eventual final rankings. Our score fluctuated quite a bit that year and it wasn't all our performance levels. Interesting things would happen after we would go on first at prelims at regionals, and then amoung the 'big boys' at night. Personally I always felt sorry for the smaller class A corps who went on after us that year, and for the folks still coming in the stadium when we were on the field. I would be okay with a total random draw for some shows. It would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) its all slotting. example. if you put a top 3 corps to perform first at finals.. their score will stay roughly in that top 3 area.. (lets say in the 97 range).. now.. if a judge absolutely loved that corps.. and gave them.. a 99.. that means all 11 corps to perform after will have to be based off of that 99 score. what if to the judges dismay, all 11 corps pulled one out of their (_(_) and performed their show BETTER than the first corps to go on? 99.1 99.2 99.3 99.4 etc. now we know that wont happen, so if a corps that has been undefeated all season, ends up going on first on finals night.. that score will have to be adjusted/slotted so that other corps can prove to be "better" or "worse". its all judgemental.. maybe thats why they are called judges.. who are judging. if corps A goes on first and gets a 1.0 and corps B goes on does slightly better and gets a 1.3 where will corps C get placed if they do better than A, but less than B? bring back the tick system. I would be okay with a total random draw for some shows. It would be interesting. thats already happened. and it was interesting enough that it doesnt happen anymore. Edited July 10, 2006 by cire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I'd be happy if the tick system composed at least a portion of the scoring. There needs to be an objective component to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 I'd be happy if the tick system composed at least a portion of the scoring. There needs to be an objective component to this. Well, the tick system wasn't objective either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 It's fairly more objective than what we have right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 It's fairly more objective than what we have right now. No, no it wasn't. Not only was it not any more or less subjective, it wouldn't hold up in today's show designs. Shows are infinitely more complex both musically and visually. The days when you can tick a snare line simply by watching thier hands is long gone. Sure, you can still do it to some degree, but it gets a heck of a lot harder when you have split parts and complex drill. Ticking a visual program would be even harder, and no more objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio Tan Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 Can we at least deduct points for dropping equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 10, 2006 Share Posted July 10, 2006 (edited) Can we at least deduct points for dropping equipment? Nope. Two reasons: 1) How do you differentiate between a dropped triple and a dropped five? 2) How can you penalize an intentional drop? What needs to happen is that execution should be emphasized a bit more within the current system...visually, anyway. I think execution is emphasized on the musical side. Edited July 10, 2006 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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