Pits are way too loud nowadays.

[bawker]

Those "on the boards" do need to turn the keyboards down when they aren't carrying the melody.

A lot of shows (Cadets and BD) are close to being ruined because of it... (dalazz, for the most part the 'Coats were pretty good about that, though).

Missing p-mf brass parts just to hear eighth note keyboard GLONGS is kind of annoying. :)

Edited August 29, 2006 by bawker

[Iplaytimpani]

Forgive my complete and full disagreement with your statements. #1 - a ton of work is put into those mixes. Don't ever believe for one second that this isn't the case. #2 - The mics work very well where they are. They are in the optimal position for recording corps on the field, and for replicating their environment. They even have an LFE mic - bet you didn't know that... #3 - they do have a "script". If you watch "The Beat" in Season Pass, you'd see that. #4 - maybe having a boom near the tymps is to ensure balance, since tympani players tend to, ummm... not make themselves match the ensemble at times. Not you though, right? ;)

Listen to a recording of KK from 2003 to 2005. There's no question I was playing, and OFTEN overplaying. I had a job to make up for contras that didnt exsist and unfortunatly, it makes me stick out like a sore thumb. Kinda one of those, had to do what was asked things. Funny thing is, I wasnt mic'd. But with a smaller corps, the pit didn't need mics. Now to combat your combatting of me. :P

#1. I don't believe that work isn't put into those mixes but at the same time, look at the time it takes for a band to come out of the studio and for their CD to hit shelves. There's a big gap in time there, and usually that's just trying to mix 4- 5 instruments and maybe a vocalist. I'm not saying I want each instrument click track recorded and blah blah so dont take it out of context please, I'm merely stating that the turn around on CD's is amazing time wise, but I dont believe offers the best sound recording possible.

#2. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I dont think that mic's on the ground in front of the pit are the best place for recording. I'd really like to see the mic's up higher, which is the intended listening point of corps. Hence horn pops right?

#3. I haven't seen the Beat so I'll take you at your word. I would rather not comment without knowing exactly on that one. So I'll let you win this one :P

#4. I kinda already addressed at the beginning. So really, I guess the point I'd like to make is IMO it's time for drum corps to evaluate how and where they're recording from to get the BEST result possible.

[illinidale]

Couple comments for Iplaytimpani and others:

Pit amplification makes recording the corps with a good balance very, very difficult. With amps cranked to project to the box you will get overpowering pit down low.

The sound engineers for the DCI recordings, DVDs, and ESPN show are real professionals who are experts in this field. Many of them also happen to have drum corps background and they are passionate for the activity. Post production is top notch, keeping in mind the limits on the amount of money DCI can spend and time-to-market constraints. Delayed shipment will absolutely result in fewer sales.

If you put the mics in the stands you'll get more crowd and less corps. "Go Silvia" during Cavaliers, and even more idiots trying to get their voices on the DVDs.

Mics are directed for solos (Shotgun mics) and they are not always on. Just 'cause you see it in front of the tymp doesn't mean it's on.

IMO it's time for drum corps to evaluate how and where they're recording from to get the BEST result possible.

This happens every time they set up the mics.

If you are a recording engineer, you could send DCI a bid to produce the sound recordings for DCI Finals. Give it a shot...

Dale

[drumcat]

Worse than that - to me it's cheating. If bass #4 overplays a part it's noticed and commented on. Why should a vibe player have that same mistake covered up by a staff member?

[Begines]

Goodbye Drum Corps Planet

Edited August 16, 2008 by Begines

[Jeff Ream]

as a person affiliated with a drum corps and directly related to the sound equipment. i will again stress that if done correctly amps can be an amazing thing. but along these sames lines....being down running a board during shows, i also noticed on the recordings that the pits do tend to drown out the rest the corps at certain parts. i have heard shows from the upper deck this year and they sounded amazing, but the recordings i am just hearing the pit. this is not saying the corps should or shouldn't have amps but more a question what can be done between corps with amps and the people recording the shows. people need to realize that the main point of amps in the show is not to produce a recording but to give the audience the best sound that they can hear at the live show they are attending. but come the time that mics are up and recording this can cause a problem....ie look at the mic set up for recording on the field...they are infront of the pit and directly in the speaker line the whole show...so it is going to happen that they pick up alot of the sound from the amped pit. personally i think that the best solution is to have a recording session with all corps where amps are not used to get the best sound with the corps, given that that is the only way to not here music with amps. and it could be a cool addition to finals week...i def would pay or take time out to go and just listen to the music these corps put out without the drill on the field..i do love the arcs. but again just my pov and 2 cents worth.

well if they arent used for the recordings, the people making the recordings need to be aware of them and make the changes needed to better balance things out

[Jeff Ream]

First of all, its not the amps that are being place causing the problems, its the speaker cabinets. Not being smart here, but this is part of the problem, not enough people understand sound systems. These should be used as sound reinforcement, not to take away technique or the playing ability of the corps. What it does though is help a corp that has 1 or 2 good players, mic em up, turn em up and you now can sound as full as a corp that has 6 good players.

One thing, through all the conversation about sound systems I have seen is nobody says anything about some of the poor quality systems being used. My question is how can you judge on quality of tone and sound and use a 2 dollar system to amplify this? And then they want to hear the system all the way to the top for the judges. Well ladies and gentlemen, this can not happen with quality sound with the types of systems being used. IMPOSSIBLE. Then you throw in th experience of the one running the board, do they really know how or is it simply turn it up till it feedback then turn down a little.

But my biggest concern is all the effort, time and money and judging put into quality sound of the instruments but then its ok to amplify the sound to the audience and top judges with sub par sound reinforcement. Believe me there is a huge difference between types of speaker cabinets and microphones and it effects the amplified sound a great deal. So what are we all about, quality sound or loud sound? Just my 2cen

many people have commented on the quality of the equipment. we've had people that do sound for a living basically decimate the DCi approach with valid arguments even us non sound guys can understand

[Jeff Ream]

I was The Bluecoats "Sound Guy" this year. I never operated the board (I was in the box), but I was brought in on multiple occasions to "dial in" their sound.

It's never the musician's job to place mics, speaker cabinets, ect. It's the recording engineer's. Corps should not be held responsible for the quality of the recording, nor should they be asked to change their setup that they've been using successfully for the entire year. If you move the cabinets, the entire way the pit have been hearing themselves change. The mic placement on this years CD was clearly to low and close to the pit. Even when the pit wasn't amplified (yes, there are times that we actually bring the faders down) the pit was too loud on the recording. Remember, it's not ONE persons opinion on whether or not the pit is too loud... i.e. "the sound guy" The entire staff and judging community weighs in on this on a day to day basis. Judging the overall amplification level by the recording isn't fair at all. If you look closely, we are projecting the cabinets to the judges box, not the recording microphones. Frankly, I could care less about the recording. I care about the best quality of sound and balance for Madison, WI on Aug. 12th, 2006 at Row 1, Seat 21 of Section FF (which is dead center of the stadium).

On a related subject.. I just finished mastering the new Cavaliers Championship Years CD where I added 2006. The recording was WAY different then 92, 95, 00, 01, 02, and 04. Way too much crowd noise and pit. Also the overall volume level was about 10db lower. The only good thing is that there didn't appear to be any compression at all. ...not that compression is a bad thing. Most of the time you don't even notice it. I did have to boost the overall presence of 2006 to get it to sound anywhere close to 2004.

Anyway, I could write a book on this subject... so if anyone has any questions, email me. (dt@dtay.com)

Dallas

Bluecoats Amp Guy 05-06

Fox, G4, NBC, ect.... Sound Mixer

is it possible you can teach whoever does the recording for DCI how to do it right?

[tubasweet]

Attended a Music Festival recently at a County show and witnessed an acoustic group Brass,Percussion,Pit & Piano(No amps) playing Rock,Ballads and some complex driving pieces to a large crowd. Very well balanced, very musical.

I'm inclined to agree and will not be purchasing any DC cd's as they have become awful/frustrating to listen.

[pitcorps]

Live, they didn't sound bad at all.

Exactly. The problem isn't pits. The problem is dci hasn't changed their microphone techniques. Don't complain to the corps about the fact that they wanted to "not sound bad at all" to the live performers. Complain directly to dci about their recording techniques.