Kiwanis Kavaliers and DCI

[Walter]

..I believe that the 2005 home show in Kitchener was also midweek if memory serves......

It was held on a Wednesday. B)

[Iplaytimpani]

So, let me get this straight. The same people that have in the past privately and publicly ripped the corps and the things going on, are now coming at it from the other way. Justin man, you know I have absolutly NO beef with you as you were a great vet my first year at KK and a great guy. But to bring up something about people never paying dues? Sorry man, but you told me straight up you NEVER paid your dues for your age out year. Does that matter? Not to me, but I'm just saying, a lot of stuff went down with that corps. I will willingly admit I've said some negative stuff about the corps in the past and if someone asks me privately, still will. But I know for a fact I'm not the only one who's had more than their fair share of bashing. Heck, people that are a huge part of this revival on the admin side have said some of the nastiest stuff I've ever heard about the corps. Does it all matter? Not really. I will come out and say I wish the best for this "New KK" but I think the better than you and I can't believe you have bad things to say about the corps conversations can stop. Its superficial. We all know what types of things have been said and discussed in private, but still, respect all of you that you know who I'm talking to. Best of luck with the new and improved corps.

[Font]

Hey, so yeah, how about it? Kiwanis coming back and all? Yeah . . . That . . . Uhh . . . Yeah, there it is.

A word of advice: Keep it in PM's. I don't understand the logic behind all the negative (And I guess those posters would use the word "brutally honest" rather than negative, but I, and a few other people who don't post on here, see this as negative.) posts on here, and therefore I would suggest it be kept to PM's. Or better yet, take it up with the people at Kiwanis themselves in a private meeting, either by phone, e-mail, videomail/phone, written letters, teleportation device, what-have-you. It doesn't make sense to me for anyone here to outright bash eachother, whether they're supportive or against KK (Or any of the organizations happenings). Actually, in my opinion (And I'm sure many people share this opinion, seeing as how there are people who, albeit turn out to be hypocritical on this, tell me this ALL OF THE TIME when it comes to Drum Corps and posting on these boards) it makes you all seem like rabbling five years olds . . . immature, if you will. So, if you can kindly take this mud-slinging contest out of here and elsewhere, where you can resolve it like mature men and women, please do so. In the mean time, I'm going to keep posting the updates and news coming out of Kiwanis for all of those still interested in wondering what is REALLY going on with this Corps that all of a sudden has so much support along with hatred from all sorts of people (Not neccesarily those on this board). Thanks, and please drive along.

P.S. Duder, I appreciate the attempt to hurt my feelings (Need a reminder? Here: /sarcasm

And Font, glad to see after a season at Trinity you're back and have apparently been appointed a staff member of the new KK. Thats pretty amazing. Congratulations!

/sarcasm) but it didn't work. I lost a whole lot of respect for you (And you don't know how much I truly had for you, even though we've never met. Out of everyone, I was hoping to meet you the most at those camps.). I'm surprised, you of all people, would put me down for trying to support my Corps and bring it back from a near death experience. I'm doing it not as a favor to anyone, or to #### people off, but to finally do what I love most and do best: MARCH A FREAKING DRUM CORPS FOR A FULL SEASON, especially with one with so many cool people [And that's the truth]. So please, stop.

And a reminder for everyone: Brass audition music is up. Check that out. Staff names will be added by the end of this week, or early next week. Our first camp is still December 1st through the 3rd. And, Kiwanis will be at the next DCI Board Meeting. Have a nice day.

[pitcap1]

I think the big problem with everything going on is lack of communication with what's been happening from up north to down south. I have had many conversations with Paul on the road, especially in 2002 (By the way Paul, I don't know if I ever had the chance to thank you. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for pulling my spirits up when they were at the lowest in my life.). I do not think even the new administration staff knew why the website wasn't handed over and assumed it was out of hatred. I am sorry for running with what seems to be false information. Tilt, I was not meaning you as far as alumni helping out... I remember you in 2002 up all night painting those drums for us (Which did look very good, I might add) so I'm sorry if you thought I was just singling you out... I was talking about alumni in general. As far as everything else goes, why doesn't everybody here that has been on this topic just work together to make the best possible drum corps available? If we all step back, we'd realize we are all very passionate for the corps and we should all just get together, drink a few Molson Canadian's (Best beer in the world in my opinion), and figure out what everybody can do to help.

Justin Robards

PS- I did pay my fees off eventually Duder, but you were right.

[Toe]

So, I've been reading this thread since it began, and I'd like to say, that I have been in constant contact with the new board for Kiwanis Kavaliers. If you don't know who I am, My name is Tony Del Rivero, Executive Director for Paradox Percussion Theatre (PDX).

The ideas that the new board members have for this organization is enough to make anyone excited. I for one am excited to have such a prestigious organization as one of our affiliates. The new board consists of many KK alum, as well as members that want nothing but success for the drum corps. No corps should EVER end up going inactive because of lack of membership. (And yes, lack of membership ends up leading to lack of money....thus....financial trouble).

The move to Miami, FL. wasn't an easy decision. Will I say that it was the right one? Only Time will tell. There is a disgusting amount of young musicians in South Florida that are looking for just this type of opportunity to perform, grow as a person, and have their product connect with thousands of people throughout the country, without the funds to travel every month to a camp out of state or 5+ hours away. Not to mention how dangerous it can be for members to carpool to camps. Last February PDX and KK were affiliated in a way both of us didn't want to be. Both organizations lost a member in a horrific car accident. Not a day goes by, that I don't think about it, and the call I received that night.

What do you all think a 16 year old High School kid would think about an organization if all he/she hears or reads all the time is negative comments about it?

Here's your answer: (straight from one of my HS drumline students' IM)

"If i heard they sucked, i dunno, prolluy go somewhere else....i dun wanna march a corp that sucks."

These forums have done much good for the activity, but unfortunately they have done their fair share of harm to it also.

Font is a member of PDX, and was a member of KK up until they went inactive. I sat about what, 6 seats away from him at the 2005 Orlando DCI show. I remember telling him to audition for the corps, but he was reluctant to, JUST BECAUSE of what he heard. He showed up to the camps anyway and fell in love with the organization. He found his "Home". So don't jump on his back because he's doing his part as a member (even though he never wore the uniform) to help recruit for HIS corps. (I just hope he's recruiting for ours too hahaha)

So Alum, and Drum Corps fans, do YOUR part. Many people complain about how drumcorps is dead, do your part and respect these organizations that are working so hard to provide all of you alum and vets with the product you wish you could be a part of one more time.

[sarahfromthepit]

Word.

[Iplaytimpani]

So Tony, I hear what you're saying man and Sarah, we always hear what the others saying. But I'm still gonna play devils advocate. See = ^0^

If there's all these great plans and this and that, whens the hype gonna end and someone show us something? I'm an Alum, and any of you that know me, know I did everything and then some for the corps when I was there. But I feel disrespected for how things ended up by a lot of people. I don't wish ill on the "new" KK, but if its so much different and better, why is it already shaping up with the same smoke and mirrors or junk, instead of showing facts? Thats all I'm saying. If I'm an alum and know how great the potential for the corps and how great the experience CAN be yet I'm skeptical, how on earth is that gonna help with a recruiting pitch. And I never fault Font for trying his best for the corps. But somewhere the line should be drawn by a corps, and with many corps that line is dont post in forums. I'm saying someone, even Sarah, needs to be the one putting up announcements and things. I would love to see the corps come back and be something great. But either do it, or don't. And I'm pretty sure all attempts are being put forth to make it happen. But right now, its the same ol' same ol' at least in these eyes. C'mon, show me something. Shut up Duder. b**bs

[KaviesContra]

So, I've been reading this thread since it began, and I'd like to say, that I have been in constant contact with the new board for Kiwanis Kavaliers. If you don't know who I am, My name is Tony Del Rivero, Executive Director for Paradox Percussion Theatre (PDX).

The ideas that the new board members have for this organization is enough to make anyone excited. I for one am excited to have such a prestigious organization as one of our affiliates. The new board consists of many KK alum, as well as members that want nothing but success for the drum corps. No corps should EVER end up going inactive because of lack of membership. (And yes, lack of membership ends up leading to lack of money....thus....financial trouble).

The move to Miami, FL. wasn't an easy decision. Will I say that it was the right one? Only Time will tell. There is a disgusting amount of young musicians in South Florida that are looking for just this type of opportunity to perform, grow as a person, and have their product connect with thousands of people throughout the country, without the funds to travel every month to a camp out of state or 5+ hours away. Not to mention how dangerous it can be for members to carpool to camps. Last February PDX and KK were affiliated in a way both of us didn't want to be. Both organizations lost a member in a horrific car accident. Not a day goes by, that I don't think about it, and the call I received that night.

What do you all think a 16 year old High School kid would think about an organization if all he/she hears or reads all the time is negative comments about it?

Here's your answer: (straight from one of my HS drumline students' IM)

These forums have done much good for the activity, but unfortunately they have done their fair share of harm to it also.

Font is a member of PDX, and was a member of KK up until they went inactive. I sat about what, 6 seats away from him at the 2005 Orlando DCI show. I remember telling him to audition for the corps, but he was reluctant to, JUST BECAUSE of what he heard. He showed up to the camps anyway and fell in love with the organization. He found his "Home". So don't jump on his back because he's doing his part as a member (even though he never wore the uniform) to help recruit for HIS corps. (I just hope he's recruiting for ours too hahaha)

So Alum, and Drum Corps fans, do YOUR part. Many people complain about how drumcorps is dead, do your part and respect these organizations that are working so hard to provide all of you alum and vets with the product you wish you could be a part of one more time.

Thank you Tony for your good words about the corps and I agree with you 100% about the negative comments. Its a new corps with a new direction, So just give it a chance and see what happens because your never know until you give it a chance. I will tell you right now I have more memories with Kiwanis then with the other corps I marched and I'm not putting them down but its just a family with both corps and I wouldn't trade that up for anything. I had a great 4 years of drum corps with both corps and I just wish people would stop putting down corps like Kiwanis and just give them chance. So please Alumni and anyone that's helped or worked with Kiwanis before just please stop the fighting, stop the pointing fingers, stop telling each other how the corps should be run and just help each other and let this corps live once again and start out fresh. So that's all I have to say but I hope that helps a little and bringing this corps back on the field for 07!

Mike D

WE ARE ONE!

[NotSoOldTimer]

Well, I suppose this thread (as well as others) might beg the following question: Why doesn't the webmaster of kavaliers.com say something in his defense. To which my response is: Why should I have to? I have talked to Sarah and I think we've found some common ground and we'll all work together. Justin seems to have figured out that I'm not an ogre (shaddup Tilt) and the good sir Tilt has defended me admirably.

I will also say that I support Doug Darwin. After the decision was made to go inactive in the spring, he made a point of apologizing to me personally. Why me? He knows how far back I go with this corps (further than he) and how I feel about it. Just 2/3 weeks prior we were at a wedding of two Kavie alum with A LOT of long-time alumni/supporters and he was still talking of the Teal Sound option. I think "the weight" of the responsibilities combined with the stress/strain of the travel (think about that) conspired to cause an implosion and many people, unfortunately, got caught in the middle. But as much as some of you feel/felt your own pain, you've got to understand that he had the weight and burden of 35 years of expectations on his shoulders and less and less of "the traditional support circle" (also due to travel) surrounding him. Mistakes notwithstanding, do not judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes. Not excusing any wrongs, just defending a guy who's alright in my books. He still hasn't contacted me since the spring to talk about anything and I know why: He's embarrassed and hurt. I feel for the guy.

I think the problems of the recent past could be summed up with two words: "perception" and "communication". I think you'll find variations on the phrase "it seems/seemed" and "apparently" often. Many of the "perceived" problems were due to, as Justin put it, "false information".

I don't agree with the reasoning behind adopting a new domain and feel everything could have been handled, reasonably, with the traditional kavaliers.com but what ya gonna do?

All that being said, this is my/our corps and it's NOT dead. But it has moved away from home and everyone should understand that it saddens a LOT of people. The province of Ontario, which back when I started in 77 had about 35 drum corps (our National championship would last two days to work out everything) has now lost another corps and is down to 3 div 3 corps. But, unlike folding which most others have done, it's still alive. We should be happy about that. A few (more probably think so) of the Canadian alumni have stated to me that they think it was a bad idea to do the collaboration with TBThunder and thus moving to Florida for camps, etc. but I heartily disagree. After 2001 the corps was definitely weak. Doug pulled off an UNPRECEDENTED event in the history of drum corps in North America: A corps based in two different countries and separated by 1000s of kilometres, uh, miles. The 2003 corps had a better score than our 98 corps and that was a good year! I think what people are really saying is that they feel a disconnect with the corps being not from KW anymore. I suppose we could find sympathy from Spirit alumni in this regard, although they're, what, one state away and don't have to worry about currency exchange rates.

One thing that would always make me happy (and I'm sure many others know this) was seeing somebody I marched with in the early 80s coming by our summer rehearsal site in the mid-90s when the corps was really heating up. The look of pride on their faces when they saw their corps (and people they recognized) doing so well was priceless. I think the alumni are worried that they can't do this so simply anymore either. Never had to coordinate watching a rehearsal with a travel agent before. And then there's those darned exchange rates again.

I have asked Sarah to urge the board of the new organization to figure out ways to embrace/welcome the alumni of the traditional Kiwanis Kavaliers and she agrees to the importance of this. Afterall, the "new" Kiwanis Kavaliers have yet to prove themselves.

The new administration has made and will make mistakes (not cuz they're idiots, only that they lack experience). But their hearts are in the right place and I, for one, am going to give them the room to breathe. And I won't expect them to finish in the top 12 for at least 3 years.

And, for all who long for "the good old days", Tilt and I are developing the alumni site to allow all to come by and reminisce.

Let's GO, Kavies!

We Are One!

(On a somewhat-unrelated vein, I'm also glad Jacques Martin's coaching the Florida Panthers now and not the Ottawa Senators. He can bore the heck outta Miami hockey fans, now, all 465 of you)

Edited October 15, 2006 by NotSoOldTimer

[pitcap1]

Well, I suppose this thread (as well as others) might beg the following question: Why doesn't the webmaster of kavaliers.com say something in his defense. To which my response is: Why should I have to? I have talked to Sarah and I think we've found some common ground and we'll all work together. Justin seems to have figured out that I'm not an ogre (shaddup Tilt) and the good sir Tilt has defended me admirably.

I will also say that I support Doug Darwin. After the decision was made to go inactive in the spring, he made a point of apologizing to me personally. Why me? He knows how far back I go with this corps (further than he) and how I feel about it. Just 2/3 weeks prior we were at a wedding of two Kavie alum with A LOT of long-time alumni/supporters and he was still talking of the Teal Sound option. I think "the weight" of the responsibilities combined with the stress/strain of the travel (think about that) conspired to cause an implosion and many people, unfortunately, got caught in the middle. But as much as some of you feel/felt your own pain, you've got to understand that he had the weight and burden of 35 years of expectations on his shoulders and less and less of "the traditional support circle" (also due to travel) surrounding him. Mistakes notwithstanding, do not judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes. Not excusing any wrongs, just defending a guy who's alright in my books. He still hasn't contacted me since the spring to talk about anything and I know why: He's embarrassed and hurt. I feel for the guy.

I think the problems of the recent past could be summed up with two words: "perception" and "communication". I think you'll find variations on the phrase "it seems/seemed" and "apparently" often. Many of the "perceived" problems were due to, as Justin put it, "false information".

I don't agree with the reasoning behind adopting a new domain and feel everything could have been handled, reasonably, with the traditional kavaliers.com but what ya gonna do?

All that being said, this is my/our corps and it's NOT dead. But it has moved away from home and everyone should understand that it saddens a LOT of people. The province of Ontario, which back when I started in 77 had about 35 drum corps (our National championship would last two days to work out everything) has now lost another corps and is down to 3 div 3 corps. But, unlike folding which most others have done, it's still alive. We should be happy about that. A few (more probably think so) of the Canadian alumni have stated to me that they think it was a bad idea to do the collaboration with TBThunder and thus moving to Florida for camps, etc. but I heartily disagree. After 2001 the corps was definitely weak. Doug pulled off an UNPRECEDENTED event in the history of drum corps in North America: A corps based in two different countries and separated by 1000s of kilometres, uh, miles. The 2003 corps had a better score than our 98 corps and that was a good year! I think what people are really saying is that they feel a disconnect with the corps being not from KW anymore. I suppose we could find sympathy from Spirit alumni in this regard, although they're, what, one state away and don't have to worry about currency exchange rates.

One thing that would always make me happy (and I'm sure many others know this) was seeing somebody I marched with in the early 80s coming by our summer rehearsal site in the mid-90s when the corps was really heating up. The look of pride on their faces when they saw their corps (and people they recognized) doing so well was priceless. I think the alumni are worried that they can't do this so simply anymore either. Never had to coordinate watching a rehearsal with a travel agent before. And then there's those darned exchange rates again.

I have asked Sarah to urge the board of the new organization to figure out ways to embrace/welcome the alumni of the traditional Kiwanis Kavaliers and she agrees to the importance of this. Afterall, the "new" Kiwanis Kavaliers have yet to prove themselves.

The new administration has made and will make mistakes (not cuz they're idiots, only that they lack experience). But their hearts are in the right place and I, for one, am going to give them the room to breathe. And I won't expect them to finish in the top 12 for at least 3 years.

And, for all who long for "the good old days", Tilt and I are developing the alumni site to allow all to come by and reminisce.

Let's GO, Kavies!

We Are One!

(On a somewhat-unrelated vein, I'm also glad Jacques Martin's coaching the Florida Panthers now and not the Ottawa Senators. He can bore the heck outta Miami hockey fans, now, all 465 of you)

I love Paul.

I have to say, if Doug and Kiwanis hadn't merged with Thunder back in 2002, there would've been almost 100 kids that would not have marched. I met me fiancee in the corps and will do my best to support the corps and the administration. I truly believe the corps will thrive in Miami and will do whatever I can to support them.

Love all of my fellow kiwanis supporters.

Justin Robards