Esperanza

[oldtimedrummer]

I was reading through this topic and found this post quite interesting. I wonder who the only person backing up Adam Stout, up on a soap box about how the activity should be, who knows exactly how Esperanza plans to pay their staff, with an anonymous name, who uses the word folks allot could possibly be??

"Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can make a living off being a drum corps instructor"

Your right, what this activity needs is more part time volunteers, that will raise the standards. What does this have to do with this topic at all? I would say unfortunately there are too many directors out there who do not respect the talents and dedication of their staffs, well at least one for sure!

"It is a youth activity (and a very small one at that) that is meant to be, first and foremost, about the members. If you want to know what it is truly supposed to be about, look at the volunteers on the cook trucks, the uniform repair folks, etc."

It is all about the kids, I mean really it is all about the support staff........ Really? You think this activity is really about the person who repairs uniforms. I think critter put this best.

"The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members. Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid."

There is no argument here. However, you do realize we are having this discussion in March. It's not like we are on tour and I am asking for a check. Show fee checks went out a while ago and I still don't even have returned phone call or any sort of payment plan.

Also, if safe travel is at the top of the list, after being caught drinking, why was a member dropped off at the airport with no ID and no money to find a way home for herself? Dosen't seem like safe travel to me!

"And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about."

It is the organizations of these corps that are doing them in, not the posts. A well ran corps shouldn't have anything to hide. Maybe corps have to learn the hard way to stop "mistreating" their staff and members. The only way you could think I wasn't mistreated is if noneofyourbuisness is not so secretly Cox himself.

"Try volunteering for one of these corps before you ##### about them"

Apparently I did volunteer this past summer.........

"Old saying about "walking a mile in the other guys shoes"."

I have an old saying, "ALWAYS PAY YOUR STAFF"

John Mapes

Esperanza Percussion Caption Head 2002-2006

John, I appreciate your post, especially your attitude about the performers and safety. I'm guilty at times for putting too much emphasis on design, the adults involved, etc, and not enough on the kids, the volunteers, and the overall experience. You make many good points in your well stated post. Bottom line, the staff should be paid, if not full pay on tour, than half until the end of the season, or some kind of communication or explanation. March is unacceptable, unless of course you and the rest of the staff didn't show up, or something else crazy, which I highly doubt. IMO, DCI (Dan A.) needs to step in to achieve some kind of resolution to this difficult situation, and prevention from this happening again.

Edited March 10, 2007 by oldtimedrummer

[well_actually]

Unfortunately, there are too many people out there who think they can make a living off being a drum corps instructor. It is NOT supposed to be a career, folks. It is a youth activity (and a very small one at that) that is meant to be, first and foremost, about the members. If you want to know what it is truly supposed to be about, look at the volunteers on the cook trucks, the uniform repair folks, etc. These people all have real jobs and sacrifice their only vacation time every summer for the good of the kids. You know, those people that many of the young, inexperienced instructors take for granted?

I agree that folks who are contracted for a certain function should be paid what they are owed. BUT, they can wait in line with the other "stakeholders" for the payments. The first priority should be the safe travel, feeding, and care of the members. Once the show fees arrive from DCI after the season ends, then the staff, gas charge cards, etc. should be paid.

And, just MHO, if we keep allowing all of these public attacks against every corps that has a person come on here and whine how they were mistreated, very soon there will be no activity left to talk about. We've lost several corps already this year because of these type of actions, and now this one is put under the gun by the "experts" of DCP. Try volunteering for one of these corps before you ##### about them. Old saying about "walking a mile in the other guys shoes".

Just for the record, many of the staff had their own jobs as well and sacrificed vacation time every summer for the good of the kids.

That staff that drove the trucks and rv's each night after teaching all day.

That staff that were the only reason many of the sponsors Esperanza has even looked at the corps.

That staff that paid for equipment such as stick tape and foam and paint without submitting receipts.

That staff that was the reason kids kept coming back "despite the director" (and if that is in dispute I will donate 100 dollars for each percussion staff vet that returns to the corps).

That staff that Alan Cox took for granted.

I was going to stay out of this but you have no right putting this on Mapes. It does not cost anything to answer a phone call or send an email. No excuse.

[oldtimedrummer]

If it's "All about the kids", why have the members from 2006 STILL not received their member patches that were promised to them at the October banquet?

That's really a shame for the kids, and is, IMO, a whole other issue that should be addressed.

EDIT: I just hate to see this happening to a corps like Esperanza. I saw them several times last season and was very impressed with their work ethic and commitment. The kids and the staff do not deserve this treatment.

Edited March 10, 2007 by oldtimedrummer

[well_actually]

If you are teaching drumcorps for the money, you may want to rethink your priorities. Drumcorps is not a great money making venture and every drumcorps has money troubles at some point or another. All staff members (admin and teaching) sacrifice a lot to be apart of the activity just like the volunteers and the members do. For me, being a member of a drumcorps had such a positive experience in my life that I had to pay a debt back to the people who made it possible for me by stepping up and making it possible for the next generation. With that motivation, I don't mind paying for a flight to get out on tour or for buying a can of paint. If it helps that kids out, I'll do it.

Running a drumcorps is not a glorious job. It takes a lot of time, causes massive amount of stress, and requires total dedication. No one runs a drumcorps for the money (at least at Esperanza, the admin staff is all volunteer and has never gotten paid).

It is easy to vilify a director, but do you really think that someone who dedicates their entire life to helping 100s of kids year after year be part of a great activity like this is evil? If so, you may want to check your basis for reality. As part of an organization, sometimes decisions made in the best interests of the whole are not the same as what you would choose, but if you try to keep the kids in mind it make the stuff we deal with day to day a little more bearable. If you can only think of yourself, this may not be the activity for you. [We all have to do things on tour we would prefer not to do, but that doesn't mean they do not have to get done]

Sometimes one side of the story isn't really enough to draw a valid conclusion.

Few questions/statements regarding this.

1. Do you actually think John is mad about the money... or the principle of this? He put in his years, was moving on and Allen simply decided to try and cut bait with him when he realized it At this point do you think John gives a rat about the money? Do you ACTUALLY think he ever really did. It is the principle of the matter.

2. Who are you to question what he does for a living or what his priorities are? Esperanza has employed people like Rob Jett and Tom Float in various capacities in the past and at no time have they not paid them stating that their priorities were off if they expected money. You argument mind be valid if Esperanza made it clear that they didn't pay staff becasue it was a way to give back, but you had a contract and what you do with admin staff does not matter at all. By the way is all of the admin staff returning this year? Just curious.

3. You say "For me..." OK, that is you, John has done the same and to make it sound like John is only interested in the money and not interested in giving back to kids is an insult to the time he put in with Esperanza for many summers, one winter program and ALL of the high school lines he teaches. With that motivation, John doesn't mind doing his things. You pay for a ticket, he organizaes and recruits a staff and writes a book and teaches, and deals with sponsors. You buy paint, he goes away from his wife for several weeks and teaches.

Everyone makes sacrifices, your horse is no higher than his because of what you do for the corps.

4. You say "Running a drumcorps is not a glorious job. It takes a lot of time, causes massive amount of stress, and requires total dedication." Same could be said for running a Div 1 drumline which John did, evidenlty for free.

5. "As part of an organization, sometimes decisions made in the best interests of the whole are not the same as what you would choose, but if you try to keep the kids in mind it make the stuff we deal with day to day a little more bearable." Do you work for the Bush administration??? I actually can't believe you even typed this when referring to someone who stepped in 2002 when Esperanza had NOBODY to run that drumline and saved it and turned it into a drumline that was .15 behind Crossmen in drums in Quarters 2005 and was doing it for less money that techs were making at other corps. This is the biggest cop out I have ever read on this website. You are trying to stiff payment to someone who is leaving the corps. Coming from a guy who sends collection agencies on kids who owe money and go to another corps, you act suprised that a staff memeber would dare and try to do the same to the corps that owes him money????

6. "Sometimes one side of the story isn't really enough to draw a valid conclusion." Fine get Allen on here and tell the world his side of the story.

This is just really sad because I loved that corps, and I liked you all, but this is not cool in any way shape or form and for you to defend this... Maybe you need to change your basis for reality.

I hate this more than you could ever imagine because of the corps stupid actions they have very quickly destroyed everything than John, myself and others took so long to build. Allen was not alone in building this corps, but he thought he was. he thought the corps only needed him. Now we find out. You are now starting over. You are now where you were several years ago in every single caption and you have way to many bridges that have been burned.

It is really sad.

[eqlou]

almost beat SCV in drums at Night Beat in 05.....

[MalletMusic]

almost beat SCV in drums at Night Beat in 05.....

Yep. There were multiple times during the California tour in 05 where that percussion section came mere tenths from the SCV drumline. John [and the rest of the techs] really turned around that line from getting 2nd to last in drums in 04, to a tie for 16th in 05 quarters, again just more proof of his dedication and value to the corps.

[nesquick3]

Just for the record, many of the staff had their own jobs as well and sacrificed vacation time every summer for the good of the kids.

That staff that drove the trucks and rv's each night after teaching all day.

That staff that were the only reason many of the sponsors Esperanza has even looked at the corps.

That staff that paid for equipment such as stick tape and foam and paint without submitting receipts.

That staff that was the reason kids kept coming back "despite the director" (and if that is in dispute I will donate 100 dollars for each percussion staff vet that returns to the corps).

That staff that Alan Cox took for granted.

I was going to stay out of this but you have no right putting this on Mapes. It does not cost anything to answer a phone call or send an email. No excuse.

Wait a minute "well actually" . . .

You mean the corps director wasn't the guy sponsored by all those great companies? . . . You must be pullin my chain . . . I mean I always thought it was the director. . . darn it . . .

And you can't say that the kids only came back for the staff. . . I mean I was always in it for the head poncho because, like he told the ENTIRE CORPS just after we didn't even make SEMIS for the third year in a row (2006), HE KNOWS HOW TO MAKE IT TO TOP 12, NOT THE STAFF . . .

. . . and i'm sure after hearing that the entire staff was leaving, most members of the corps, like myself had a HAAARD decision whether to return or not, after all - the staff doesn't know what they're doing, it's all about the director...

...AND I HEARD A RUMOR (...I thank you...) THAT THE WHOLE STAFF WASN'T LEAVING, AND THAT A BRASS STAFF MEMBER WAS RETURNING... so what happened to that part of the story??

***due to technology's great display of emotion, or lack there of, i must put out a disclaimer that this message is full of pure sarcasm and should be read accordingly (PARTS IN CAPS ARE ACTUAL EVENTS). And furthermore, I too disagree with actions of this corps who disrespected all staff/support that has worked there in the past 4 years...shame shame shame

Edited March 10, 2007 by nesquick3

[Carlosvi7]

I find everything going on in this matter so sad. Being a member of 03 and 05 I believe everything John and the other staff members are saying. To all the people that are coming out and telling the truth about the dark things going on in this corp that staff and corps members have not been wanting to talk about for years except to our close friends, thank you. I'm very greatful for the memories and friends I've made being in the corps, but letting Alan get away with these actions is inexcusable.

Edited March 11, 2007 by Carlosvi7

[Big Eupho]

This thread sucks.

There are way to many incidentals that make drum corps in San Diego very-very difficult and challenging. Do any of the hammers have a solution? How about some positive spin? So one guy keeps it together with basically nil support from parents or money. I think after a few years of that the staff would see the light and step up and help the organization with the goal of the organization raising money and with a goal of being a magnet for the many talented kids in San Diego County. Obviously no one has the cabability to assist the core organization, I challenge you. I know you all (x-staff) realize that some one has to raise money in order for you to get paid. Has any one asked Allen how many parents blew off the PETCO Park staffing and what the financial impact is of kids not paying dues? The financial facts and analysis are very clear. The bottom line is that unfortunatley money is really the core evil of this situation. If parents of the organization would apply themseves I don't think this thread would be in existence.

There is not much leadership displayed in this thread my rant included. My reccomendation is a solution with funding solutions from the oh-so critical staff that will make this San Diego youth activity a long term success.

You know this is so ironic, I have seen so many corps fold and bite the dust due to this same kind of crap. I really don't feel that Esperanza will be one of them because the director has not paid out more than the org can handle. That is smart bus sense.

[eqlou]

wow, that was a good spin on this. you should be a politician