Banning Rifles and Sabres

[nezneau]

It is quite often interesting to hear comments from those that have never seen drum corps (or anything like it), upon experiencing it for the first time. I recently had opportunity to show a DVD to a couple of curious friends. Of their reactions, there was one rather troubling comment that stuck out -

"Oh my God... they're throwing guns and swords!"

Now... this wasn't an awed response at the technical skill... but one completely aghast at the irresponsibility of the idea. From their perspective, very young viewers might imitate what they see (with a real weapon) and the result could be quite dangerous. Also, as one of these new viewers is also a practicing attorney - they couldn't believe that youth organizations like this would perform throwing around guns and swords (even though 'simulated') - one accident, one lawsuit... and the activity as a whole could suffer terribly. An interesting perspective.

While there is certainly an argument for tradition, et cetera... the activity (and color guard, especially) has evolved so far from its military roots that these might seem no longer relevant. Another consideration is possible PR value of phasing these out. It would get an excellent amount of coverage and support (this particular argument is one that would be of interest to 20/20, 60 Minutes and the like).

Though these both have been a part of both color guard and drum corps for many generations... It might be worthwhile to discuss their current relevance and eventual replacement.

Best Regards,

Edited January 16, 2003 by nezneau

[Cody]

I agree that it can be odd for newcomers to see people "throwing guns and swords" on the field, but I don't think they should be phased out entirely. A nice alternative are the "commas" that the Cadets used in 2001. I didn't really object to that like some people did, but I would object if rifles and sabers were phased out completely.

[Jeffsjetta]

keep em

[LaSqueegee]

I think this is the problem that Rosie O'Donell had with "Blast!" B)

[Click]

Keep them. My gosh, its not like they are actually chucking a sharp metal sword or a loaded shootable rifle for God's sake. If the arguement was that little kids may see it and try to imitate it with real weapons, then I see two problems here. The little kid needs to be taken away from their family because the parents arent responsible enough to keep loaded guns and real swords out of the kids reach. And two, doesnt the military whirl guns around and shoot them in the air for show as well?

[Baritonium]

Here we go again with the PC crowd f###ing something up. If they don't like it, they can stay home. :P

[Wanabeapundit]

yeah, if the kids anywhere close enough to simulate that in any dangerous way (in reach of real guns or swords) then there isn't gonna be a lawsuit against DCI, it's against the parents.

[ScribeToo]

It is quite often interesting to hear comments from those that have never seen drum corps (or anything like it), upon experiencing it for the first time. I recently had opportunity to show a DVD to a couple of curious friends. Of their reactions, there was one rather troubling comment that stuck out  -

"Oh my God... they're throwing guns and swords!"

Now... this wasn't an awed response at the technical skill... but one completely aghast at the irresponsibility of the idea. From their perspective, very young viewers might imitate what they see (with a real weapon) and the result could be quite dangerous. Also, as one of these new viewers is also a practicing attorney - they couldn't believe that youth organizations like this would perform throwing around guns and swords (even though 'simulated') - one accident, one lawsuit... and the activity as a whole could suffer terribly. An interesting perspective.

While there is certainly an argument for tradition, et cetera... the activity (and color guard, especially) has evolved so far from its military roots that these might seem no longer relevant. Another consideration is possible PR value of phasing these out. It would get an excellent amount of coverage and support (this particular argument is one that would be of interest to 20/20, 60 Minutes and the like).

Though these both have been a part of both color guard and drum corps for many generations... It might be worthwhile to discuss their current relevance and eventual replacement.

Best Regards,

Dan..

You make it seem as though there are millions of impressionable youngsters sitting in the stands thinking.. "Hey.. Dad's got a 12ga. shotgun.. I bet I could do that if I practiced..." and I have to say I think you're WAY off base.

Saying we should eliminate weapons (that's what they're called) from the guard (that's why they're called the GUARD) because we could be sending some sort of message is, IMO, misguided. It's no better than blaming a gun manufacturer for an accidental shooting (or ANY shooting for that matter). But hey.. you know, kids could be watching the Marines silent drill team (and they actually USE REAL GUNS) and thinking the same thing.. maybe we should disarm them, too?

Essentially, a home with a gun requires that the adults store and keep them responsibly. Children in that home need to be taught proper gun handling and responsibility. Period. It's not up to us to represent anything. I grew up in a house with a gun and guess what? Nobody got shot.. ever. Nobody even tried to play pretend games with the gun. Not even when I started watching drum corps and marching band color guards spinning them.

I'm a little confounded, on this one though, Dan.. On the one hand, you can say you want to EXPAND the horizons of drum corps.. you may support opening up the hornlines to more than just bell front brass.. you might support the use of electronics.. to reach more kids.. to include everyone..

yet here you are saying you would like to LIMIT the equipment used by the color guards..

It's a little inconsistent, IMO.

Stefanie

Edited January 16, 2003 by ScribeToo

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

One of the winter guards I taught was penalized because our ending pose was they were on one knee with their rifles pointed towards the audience...ready to shoot. It was a anti-war show (yes, me --pro-let's kick some war ### doing an anti war show....you can't put me in just one box..ha haha) anyway, it was an anti-war show and my reasoning for that pose was for people to wonder what it would be like to be at the other side of a "gun". My thinking was..... It's solid pine.....there are no "boo-etts" <$1 to Elmer Fudd>. But I guess I can see their point. (This was also the school district that "cancelled" Halloween because it's a Pagan Holiday. (Too many bored soccer moms). The band directors response: We did Nightmare Before Christmas for a field show. Genius)

According to Olde Phartes and ROTC people, we don't do "what you're supposed to do with a rifle" anyway so we may as well phase them out. Same with Sabres. The summer after Cadets did the air show (what was it,..To Tame the Perilous Skies or something) that had those "S" curve thingies.... I used them for a guard I taught and everyone (the kids, the audience, the judges) loved them. They were so visual and made so much sense with the show.

I don't want them to be ruled UN useable (try spining a comma while doing a civil war show or a straight piece of metal piping (instead of a sabre) during a Spanish/bullfighting show something). But I can see that they could and should be phased out.

[ffernbus3]

Back in about 84, I was living near LaCrosse, WI. As a part of a federal/state government program to re-educate disabled Viet Nam era veterans I went for an interview for one of these programs.

I explained that I had been involved with "youth activities" for a goodly number of years and wished to obtain more expertise by applying to UofW music programs in my local area to better facilitate my arranging and conducting skill.

When asked the nature of said "youth activities" I specifically mentioned drum and bugle corps...(remember, this was in LaCrosse, home of Blue Star!)....the guy freaked like Rosie O'Donnell at a Ted Nugent dinner party.

He specifically mentioned "guns" and "swords" as not the kinds of things appropriate to a youth activity. This long, haired liberal based his whole case against me and drum corps in general on these two "war-like" issues.

(I should have mentioned here that my hair was much longer than his and I was about 10 years older.....more "time in grade," so to speak.)

I became almost outraged and sincerely got in his face about liberal politics, Viet Nam, respect for the American flag and the reason for color guards in general and how that had grown into a complete art form in itself, winter guard comps, etc. (... also asked if he still wanted to spit on me even though I hadn't been in uniform since 1969.....stuff like that). I almost came across the table at him, started getting tunnel vision, etc.....post traumatic? No, I was just righteously ######!

Needless to say, I didn't get my grant and the boy kept his front teeth, though the latter was a real close call....I have this thing about 'ignorance' being in charge.

I have the greatest respect for some old-school drum corps traditions while still embracing change, but from this one particular galvanizing experience I would have to say, with respect to guards everywhere:

Keep rifles and sabers, especially if they "fit" your unit's image.

BTW: I married a saber chick back in the day. "Chick" used with the utmost respect, believe it or not.

RON HOUSLEY