byline Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 (edited) Wow, what color guard were looking at Steve? You say rifles aren't used much? I think they are used by many top corps for impact points in their shows. Personally I think if they just had all flags, it would not be as exciting to me. You can take ANY corps from the last ten years or more and compare it to the 70s and early 80s corps, and there is NO comparison...rifles are rarely used. Yes, they might use them as impact points, but in the earlier eras, all we had was rifles and flags...hardly any other equipment was ever used. There was a distinct rifle line that stayed on rifle for 90% of the show. You can't find that today. And I'm not advocating the use of flags only...I'm simply saying that compared to what I grew up watching, rifles are indeed rarely used today. I don't know, Steve. There was a point in the '80s where I really believed rifle lines were going to die out. Many guards were following Santa Clara's lead and using flags only, with other props, due to the belief that flags generated so much more GE because they were more visual. People forgot the texture rifles added to the mix, the high-impact intensity that even the best flag line can't duplicate because it's a softer--for lack of a better word--piece of equipment. (When I say "softer," I mean that the visual impact is softer; it oesn't have quite the same edge as that provided by a good rifle line.) Fortunately, thanks I think in great part to winter guard, and also the all-male corps and a few other corps like Spirit, rifle didn't die out completely. It came back . . . though it was generally used less than it had been in the days when you had a rifle line for an entire, or nearly an entire, show. Will it die out completely? I sure hope not. It would be a huge loss for color guard. One of the very elements that makes color guard distinct from other visual arts would vanish. Which, sadly enough, is kinda what's happening to the rest of the activity. . . . Edited January 17, 2003 by byline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 First of all, where is it printed fact that Rosie O'donnell, oh greay ambasador of NOTHING even was against the weapons use in "Blast" anyway ??????I haven't read anything to back up this rhetoric here, or on the "other" newsgroup, or anywhere for that matter....... The only place I've seen this is in the BD website interview of George Hopkins, in which the article's author attributes that comment to Hopkins. But, as we discussed on RAMD, it was not a direct quote, so it's hard to figure out if George said it, or the author said it, or there was some sort of conversation between the two and it was paraphrased thusly. But no, I've never heard or read any direct quote of Rosie O'Donnell along those lines. For anyone who hasn't read it by now, here's the article that's the source of this debate: Interview with George Hopkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Diva Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 (edited) Rifles over the last decade have almost grown obsolete anyway...not that many use them for much of the show. ?!?!?!?! What guards have YOU been watching?!?!?!?!?!?! While it's true that rifle is a more advanced piece of equipment and you therefore, may not see them in Regional A or Novice guard shows, have you watched any Open or World class guards lately??? Watched ANY of the top 12 DCI corps?!?!?!?! HELLO! OK, I know this has been commented on multiple times now that I have read the entire thread.....but I still had to add more more opinion to the thought that people who thing we don't use rifles any more are clearly watching some OTHER form of pagentry. Edited January 17, 2003 by Evil Reneguard Diva Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orpheus Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 The only place I've seen this is in the BD website interview of George Hopkins, in which the article's author attributes that comment to Hopkins. But, as we discussed on RAMD, it was not a direct quote, so it's hard to figure out if George said it, or the author said it, or there was some sort of conversation between the two and it was paraphrased thusly. But no, I've never heard or read any direct quote of Rosie O'Donnell along those lines. ... but this past year, the Cadets were back to using rifles, right? FWIW, I love seeing a guard use rifles effectively. The original post in this thread contains about the most ridiculous argument I've ever seen. If a kid doesn't know the difference between a wooden color guard rifle and a real M-1, that's his problem. Besides, what about the USMC Silent Drill Team? They do spin real rifles, often with bayonettes attached! A lot more people probably see them in the course of a year than ever see a DCI corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKBari Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Rifles over the last decade have almost grown obsolete anyway...not that many use them for much of the show. ?!?!?!?! What guards have YOU been watching?!?!?!?!?!?! While it's true that rifle is a more advanced piece of equipment and you therefore, may not see them in Regional A or Novice guard shows, have you watched any Open or World class guards lately??? Watched ANY of the top 12 DCI corps?!?!?!?! HELLO! The key word he used is "many" not "all", and he is correct in that aspect. There are more corps than just the Top 12 or the World Class winter guards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 OH GOOD GRIEF !!! I spent ALL of my adolescence with a rifle in my hand ... and so did a lot of people I know. To the best of my knowledge NONE of them has gone postal or managed to shoot themselves or anyone else! Out of simple respect for the activity and those that have spent countless hours trying to perfect a toss (or whatever) ... how can anyone associated with the activity suggest that weapons be banned. I expect that kind of commentary from the uninitiated but ... hey guys, come on! Add to that the DCI finalists used rifles ... and while not all corps are DCI finalists I think it's reasonable to say that the DCI finalists set the pace for everyone else. rifles are still very much a strong presence ... and hey guys, when done well, rifle is a #### impressive artform. And before I get off my soapbox ... they call it GUARD for a reason. Nothing is good in excess ... that includes being polically correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancerFi Posted January 18, 2003 Share Posted January 18, 2003 (edited) Prior to sabers having rubber tips, etc. and a very long time ago, maybe 1970, a girl in a guard in the east was killed when she threw her saber up and for some reason it came down vertically and went into her neck, I believe right into the jugular. I think she died almost instantly, her Dad was there and I believe she also had siblings marching. This is the only death I've ever heard of attributed to the weapons that we used. I know it's a shocking story but I do believe her sisters still marched after that, and the parents knew it was just a horrible accident. I wish I could remember what guard and what year. My Dad who was involved in drum corps was a professional worrier, and he was just as happy that I was a rifle after that happened. Not that you couldn't be knocked out by a rifle, or whatever, but it just shocked everyone and people were so saddened by it. I've had minor pains in my hands and fingers which is only natural when you're whipping that rifle around, and the higher it goes, the harder it comes down, callouses are also common even with a full gloves. But I never wanted to go out and get a real gun, and never even thought of it in that context until the 1980 Olympics when it became an issue. I think it would be a great loss to drum corps if weapons were no longer used....I hope it goes the other way and they begin to use them as much as we did! Edited January 18, 2003 by LancerFi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBrancheau Posted January 22, 2003 Share Posted January 22, 2003 In drum corps and winter guard, let this be the norm: Less dancing, more weapons! I have tremendous respect for anyone who spins a rifle or sabre. We only had flags at our high school, but we begged and begged for rifles. Of course, they got them *after* I graduated. Freakin' figures. I'm ALWAYS late to the prom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfhdznr Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 keep em but also leave open the possibility to use something else in its place, liek some of the cool rifleesque things that were used in blast II, weren't rifles but were used teh exact same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 GEESH...keep the darn rifles! It's a part of drum corp heritage as well as the visual program (when utilized correctly). As LisaLisa mentioned, just don't point them to the audience...that is stepping over a fine line. P.S.- I want to grow up one day and become a Renegade rifler... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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