Who's left in G?

[Periphery]

that was silly.

I can't put anything over on you, can I?!

B)

[bumo27]

I'm not a corps guy. However, the Renegades sounded 'bigger' than the b-flat Blue Devils last year. B-flats sound too 'polite' for jazz charts.

I just hope your activity can keep BOTH in your ranks. The diversity of hornline sounds make DCA a great activity. Hope to make Rochester this next year.

Uh huh...and Renegades hornline was also in 6th place with 4 b-flat hornlines above them. We all know that G bugles sound louder than B Flats. B flats are superior horns regarding construction, tuning, tonality, and balance. G horns are...louder....and they have the 'sizzle' factor. That's about it.

B Flat low brass is WAY darker than G. B flat trumpets are less tinny (and darker also) than sopranos. The only instrument I personally like better are G Mellophones as opposed to F mellos.

DCA isn't about louder and bigger anymore. DCA is about quality and difficulty, blend, balance, and superior tonality...all of which are easier to achieve with a B Flat hornline.

Sometimes, we have to embrace change, and also change our attitudes about what is good and what isn't as good. For me, I used to LOVE the sound of a g hornline blowing the walls down...nowadays, I love a good b flat hornline any day over a G line. I've gotten older, become more educated, and have embraced quality. This is MY opinion. It may be wrong, I realize that.

Renegades - you know I love you guys. I always have. I love that your whole concept of your hornline is "Loud is Good"....but as it turns out as of late in DCA...being just loud alone ISN'T good anymore. Of course, you don't sound like 50 Mack trucks hauling half dead bovines across a gravel pit, but your situation in the ranks of the DCA hornlines can improve greatly if you make the switch. I mean, with all of the talent you have in your hornline (BD/SCV alums aplenty), you could possibly be just as loud with B Flats and sound even better! I know you won't, because it goes against your philosophies, and that's all fine and good. If you've been pleased with your brass scores and placements, then go right ahead doing what you're doing. There's a TON of DCA fans that love you for it (including me). But if you're not pleased, and even feel that you might be getting 'hosed', then maybe taking the next step is what you might consider. Personally, considering all the hardships your corps went through last season, it's amazing that you did as well as you did. It's a testament to all of your hard work, hunger, and dedication to kicking ###. Bravo!

PLEASE don't take any of this the wrong way - I understand that it's teetering on negativity, but that is not my intention at all. I'd simply like to even the playing field more. Also realize, that I'm speaking for myself here, and not the corps I'm affiliated with. :)

We've been having this discussion for years, and I don't believe it will ever end.

Some corps use G horns, and they love it. Some corps use B Flats and they love it.

If you wanna change, then change. If not, then don't. It's as simple as that.

Edited January 4, 2007 by bumo27

[JeffBanyots]

Uh huh...and Renegades hornline was also in 6th place with 4 b-flat hornlines above them. We all know that G bugles sound louder than B Flats. B flats are superior horns regarding construction, tuning, tonality, and balance. G horns are...louder....and they have the 'sizzle' factor. That's about it.

B Flat low brass is WAY darker than G. B flat trumpets are less tinny (and darker also) than sopranos. The only instrument I personally like better are G Mellophones as opposed to F mellos.

DCA isn't about louder and bigger anymore. DCA is about quality and difficulty, blend, balance, and superior tonality...all of which are easier to achieve with a B Flat hornline.

Sometimes, we have to embrace change, and also change our attitudes about what is good and what isn't as good. For me, I used to LOVE the sound of a g hornline blowing the walls down...nowadays, I love a good b flat hornline any day over a G line. I've gotten older, become more educated, and have embraced quality. This is MY opinion. It may be wrong, I realize that.

Renegades - you know I love you guys. I always have. I love that your whole concept of your hornline is "Loud is Good"....but as it turns out as of late in DCA...being just loud alone ISN'T good anymore. Of course, you don't sound like 50 Mack trucks hauling half dead bovines across a gravel pit, but your situation in the ranks of the DCA hornlines can improve greatly if you make the switch. I mean, with all of the talent you have in your hornline (BD/SCV alums aplenty), you could possibly be just as loud with B Flats and sound even better! I know you won't, because it goes against your philosophies, and that's all fine and good. If you've been pleased with your brass scores and placements, then go right ahead doing what you're doing. There's a TON of DCA fans that love you for it (including me). But if you're not pleased, and even feel that you might be getting 'hosed', then maybe taking the next step is what you might consider. Personally, considering all the hardships your corps went through last season, it's amazing that you did as well as you did. It's a testament to all of your hard work, hunger, and dedication to kicking ###. Bravo!

PLEASE don't take any of this the wrong way - I understand that it's teetering on negativity, but that is not my intention at all. I'd simply like to even the playing field more. Also realize, that I'm speaking for myself here, and not the corps I'm affiliated with. :)

We've been having this discussion for years, and I don't believe it will ever end.

Some corps use G horns, and they love it. Some corps use B Flats and they love it.

If you wanna change, then change. If not, then don't. It's as simple as that.

It seems that you are implying that the only path to true enlightenment of higher quality brass sound and correct tuning concepts, is to go Bb.

It also seems that you believe that there may be a new bias in the judging community that would favor Bb's over traditional G horns.

I am pretty sure you are incorrect about the first thing, and am hoping you are mistaken about the second.

Good players can play in tune on anything, no matter what the key.

Good programs can teach anyone to sound good (within reason, according to talent)

Good judges shouldn't care what you play on, just that it is done with precision and good sound (whatever that may be)

Lastly, your opening sentence was a little harsh, wouldn't you say?

[Skydrummer9]

Skylinere will FOREVER PLAY G's BABY!!! WOO HOO!!! b**bs

[Sayre Kulp]

G versus Bb has nothing to do with the quality of the instrument. A horn that has been played by half the corps that ever existed in NJ over the past 30 years is completely different than a NEW G horn. Besides... as said previously, if you're any kind of musician, you can play just as well on either.

And just like I'm sure it was never meant to be... the thread has taken the ugly turn to G vs. Bb...

[camel lips]

I can't put anything over on you, can I?!

B)

OWned!

[SaraNYC]

Good players can play in tune on anything, no matter what the key.

Good programs can teach anyone to sound good (within reason, according to talent)

Indeed!!!

[FrontierEuph]

Good players can play in tune on anything, no matter what the key.

This has definitely been my experience in the Frontier brassline.

At least 75% of the Frontier brassline had never picked up a G bugle before the last two seasons--almost all of us are 'classically trained' musicians, comfortable with multiple different instruments.

http://www.frontiercorps.org/media.aspx

[MCL_Contra]

Uh huh...and Renegades hornline was also in 6th place with 4 b-flat hornlines above them. We all know that G bugles sound louder than B Flats. B flats are superior horns regarding construction, tuning, tonality, and balance. G horns are...louder....and they have the 'sizzle' factor. That's about it.

B Flat low brass is WAY darker than G. B flat trumpets are less tinny (and darker also) than sopranos. The only instrument I personally like better are G Mellophones as opposed to F mellos.

DCA isn't about louder and bigger anymore. DCA is about quality and difficulty, blend, balance, and superior tonality...all of which are easier to achieve with a B Flat hornline.

Sometimes, we have to embrace change, and also change our attitudes about what is good and what isn't as good. For me, I used to LOVE the sound of a g hornline blowing the walls down...nowadays, I love a good b flat hornline any day over a G line. I've gotten older, become more educated, and have embraced quality. This is MY opinion. It may be wrong, I realize that.

Renegades - you know I love you guys. I always have. I love that your whole concept of your hornline is "Loud is Good"....but as it turns out as of late in DCA...being just loud alone ISN'T good anymore. Of course, you don't sound like 50 Mack trucks hauling half dead bovines across a gravel pit, but your situation in the ranks of the DCA hornlines can improve greatly if you make the switch. I mean, with all of the talent you have in your hornline (BD/SCV alums aplenty), you could possibly be just as loud with B Flats and sound even better! I know you won't, because it goes against your philosophies, and that's all fine and good. If you've been pleased with your brass scores and placements, then go right ahead doing what you're doing. There's a TON of DCA fans that love you for it (including me). But if you're not pleased, and even feel that you might be getting 'hosed', then maybe taking the next step is what you might consider. Personally, considering all the hardships your corps went through last season, it's amazing that you did as well as you did. It's a testament to all of your hard work, hunger, and dedication to kicking ###. Bravo!

PLEASE don't take any of this the wrong way - I understand that it's teetering on negativity, but that is not my intention at all. I'd simply like to even the playing field more. Also realize, that I'm speaking for myself here, and not the corps I'm affiliated with. :)

We've been having this discussion for years, and I don't believe it will ever end.

Some corps use G horns, and they love it. Some corps use B Flats and they love it.

If you wanna change, then change. If not, then don't. It's as simple as that.

Chris,

I would have to dissagree with a few of your comments on this matter. I don't believe the construction of G bugles is of greater or lesser quality than Bb horns. Both have their faults and failures when used in a marching activity. I have heard many complain about their Bb horns not holding up to the rigors of drum corps. I also believe that it is much easier to tune a hornline that plays in the same key (all G) than it is to tune a multi key hornline. Tonality is based on the individual player. Learn to play in tune and blend and that is exactly what you will do no matter the key of the instrument. I have heard horrible sounding Bb hornlines and absolutely gorgeous G lines. Same is true the other way around. Bottom line is that the only difference is really only the louder volume capability of the G horns. Oh, and by the way, it is not possible for the same player to be louder on a Bb horn than on a G bugle. That is where the contruction of the horns DOES make a difference. But the same player should be able to play just as well on either horn.

The other comment I dissagree with is that Bb low brass is WAY darker than G low brass. To my ears G low brass is far darker and richer than Bb. In fact one of the biggest problems I have with Bb contras is that I can never hear them. DCA or DCI either one.

I don't have a problem with any Corps wanting to play Bb horns rather than G. In some cases it make economical sense. I guess for what it's worth, IMHO, I just don't think Bb is BETTER than G.

[jeff danchik]

We're still mostly G, a couple F, mostly 3 valve, some 2 valve.Bottom line whatever I could afford.If some one wants to trade for 3 valve fhorns for G fhorns I would consider the trade. It comes down to dollars. :)