saraqsfan Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I wonder just how many Div II/III shows some of you have been to in the last five years.. When I hear comments like "I hate to say it, but Div II/III just has to get better", I realize that the commentator is just one more person passing the buck. The truth of the matter is that the shows in Div II/III HAVE gotten better, as evidenced by the crowds who packed the stadiums in Denver and in Malden for the II/III championship shows. Before you say another word, please get rid of the idea that smaller unilaterally means less successful. Year after year, the smaller corps are told to get bigger/better/ These words are NOT interchangeable. There are a great many "bigger" corps in Division I that are NOT better. Students do not flock to the smaller corps because these groups are not "promoted" on the televised broadcasts and in most DCI centered media. There was a time when our champions were at least mentioned on the PBS show, but no more. At the recent Atlanta meetings, it was brought up that there are more than 4000 students who audition for Division I corps and do not make the cut. Where do these kids end up? Most sit home with an expensive copy of Corps' X or Corps' Y latest "how to" video, in hopes of attending the same set of try-outs the following fall. This is a crime. I have heard all sorts of reasons why our division I brethren do not want to "share" their human resources with us. Here are some things to think about: Some corps just enjoy being small. This doesn't mean that their students can't play. believe it or not, we have a significant number of annual age-outs. Most II/III corps own their own vehicles and have equipment that is in very good shape. Most II/III corps have money in the bank and are not heavily in debt. Most II/III corps allow their members to learn a new instrument, if they so choose. It's doubtful that a #1 high school bassoonist would go to Madison and be given an opportunity to learn to play the mellophone. We "teach" kids every day. The primary thing that sets Div II/III apart from Division I is access to good and services, based on competitive reputation. It really has very little to do with the kids. Most II/III corps have staff comprised of professional music educators. We also have directors who have run these corps far longer than some of the Div I people have run THEIR operations. What we do is not easy. Try to exist on $500-$1,000 per show all summer and see how much fun it is. Remember.. we still pay around 2.55 a gallon for fuel.. there are no housing or fuel stipends for our corps. Championship week for a non division I corps costs each unit at least 600.00 per day, and that is just for housing. Most of us do this because we remember what drum corps did for US back in the day and we want to share this activity with the next generation. We do not want to become all age corps and many of us resent the idea that you think this is what we "need"- There are lots of you out there who would never think of joining (helping) a division II/IIIcorps, but you sure wouldn't mind TEACHING one, especially if you were getting paid to do so. As a music educator who works with a Div II/III corps, it really makes me angry when I receive numerous flyers, posters, etc for the Division I corps, especially when it's more than apparent to me that none of my middle school students will be marching in Madison, Phantom, Cavaliers, or Pioneer in 2007. I can tell you from my experience recruiting students, not everyone who went to a division I corps had a memorable experience. When everything is all said and done, we should remember that all three division share things in common, and these commonalities are young men and women between the ages of 14 and 21 who have an affinity for marching music. If you REALLY want to see the division II/III corps prosper, make a point to go and watch them in action this summer. These students work just as hard, sometimes against incredible odds, to succeed. They do not need anyone's pity or sermonizing.. they just need your acceptance. they need to know that what THEY dedicate their summer to MEANS something. Not everyone wants to get on the bus in early June and be gone non stop until the middle of August. How about developing farm-team programs between some of the division I corps? Let's make sure that every kid who walks through any corps door gets a place to march. Let's stop talking about our differences and let's make this happen- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 That was an awesome post. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I wonder just how many Div II/III shows some of you have been to in the last five years.. When I hear comments like "I hate to say it, but Div II/III just has to get better", I realize that the commentator is just one more person passing the buck. The truth of the matter is that the shows in Div II/III HAVE gotten better, as evidenced by the crowds who packed the stadiums in Denver and in Malden for the II/III championship shows. Before you say another word, please get rid of the idea that smaller unilaterally means less successful. Year after year, the smaller corps are told to get bigger/better/ These words are NOT interchangeable. There are a great many "bigger" corps in Division I that are NOT better. Students do not flock to the smaller corps because these groups are not "promoted" on the televised broadcasts and in most DCI centered media. There was a time when our champions were at least mentioned on the PBS show, but no more. At the recent Atlanta meetings, it was brought up that there are more than 4000 students who audition for Division I corps and do not make the cut. Where do these kids end up? Most sit home with an expensive copy of Corps' X or Corps' Y latest "how to" video, in hopes of attending the same set of try-outs the following fall. This is a crime. I have heard all sorts of reasons why our division I brethren do not want to "share" their human resources with us. Here are some things to think about: Some corps just enjoy being small. This doesn't mean that their students can't play. believe it or not, we have a significant number of annual age-outs. Most II/III corps own their own vehicles and have equipment that is in very good shape. Most II/III corps have money in the bank and are not heavily in debt. Most II/III corps allow their members to learn a new instrument, if they so choose. It's doubtful that a #1 high school bassoonist would go to Madison and be given an opportunity to learn to play the mellophone. We "teach" kids every day. The primary thing that sets Div II/III apart from Division I is access to good and services, based on competitive reputation. It really has very little to do with the kids. Most II/III corps have staff comprised of professional music educators. We also have directors who have run these corps far longer than some of the Div I people have run THEIR operations. What we do is not easy. Try to exist on $500-$1,000 per show all summer and see how much fun it is. Remember.. we still pay around 2.55 a gallon for fuel.. there are no housing or fuel stipends for our corps. Championship week for a non division I corps costs each unit at least 600.00 per day, and that is just for housing. Most of us do this because we remember what drum corps did for US back in the day and we want to share this activity with the next generation. We do not want to become all age corps and many of us resent the idea that you think this is what we "need"- There are lots of you out there who would never think of joining (helping) a division II/IIIcorps, but you sure wouldn't mind TEACHING one, especially if you were getting paid to do so. As a music educator who works with a Div II/III corps, it really makes me angry when I receive numerous flyers, posters, etc for the Division I corps, especially when it's more than apparent to me that none of my middle school students will be marching in Madison, Phantom, Cavaliers, or Pioneer in 2007. I can tell you from my experience recruiting students, not everyone who went to a division I corps had a memorable experience. When everything is all said and done, we should remember that all three division share things in common, and these commonalities are young men and women between the ages of 14 and 21 who have an affinity for marching music. If you REALLY want to see the division II/III corps prosper, make a point to go and watch them in action this summer. These students work just as hard, sometimes against incredible odds, to succeed. They do not need anyone's pity or sermonizing.. they just need your acceptance. they need to know that what THEY dedicate their summer to MEANS something. Not everyone wants to get on the bus in early June and be gone non stop until the middle of August. How about developing farm-team programs between some of the division I corps? Let's make sure that every kid who walks through any corps door gets a place to march. Let's stop talking about our differences and let's make this happen- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 You are out there working with your corps and always have your finger on what is really going on and you are doing a great job with those kids who want to try.Of course, it would work best if some sort of college credit or internship program in the music education departments of several universities would recognize the program. Thank you Oldguard for the nice compliment. ALL the kids are trying. Some who join late in the Spring are very green and they work hard too. They just don't have the time to really grasp the whole drum corps thing. Fortunately for us this year, we have an excellent retention rate and are continuing to add some excellent experienced players. Should be fun for the kids and the fans. BTW, I think all the non finalist Div 3 corps have their finger on what is really going on and is working very hard and doing a great job with the talent they have. As far as working with colleges go, stay tuned for a new program from DCI named "SOUND" Its a program that works with colleges. I only caught the tail end of it but it sounded intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldguard Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 (edited) Thank you Oldguard for the nice compliment. ALL the kids are trying. Some who join late in the Spring are very green and they work hard too. They just don't have the time to really grasp the whole drum corps thing. Fortunately for us this year, we have an excellent retention rate and are continuing to add some excellent experienced players. Should be fun for the kids and the fans. My comment about working with the kids who want to try ... as in those who want to march and are willing to learn and grow in a Div II/III corps ... was in relation to those who have the "Div I or nothing" attitude. In my mind, this second group is not really willing to give it a try and are missing out on a great opportunity and summers that they would never forget. Good to hear that you have many returning members. I was very impressed last year at Prelims with how far your kids had grown over the summer. I think I said once before somewhere but it bears repeating that I felt your corps had challenged yourselves more than any other which I had seen in the early season and then at the end. You were constantly improving your drill, your show, your presentation, etc. This is the kind of drum corps I love to watch. Best wishes to everyone at Spirit of NJ for a great summer. BTW, I think all the non finalist Div 3 corps have their finger on what is really going on and is working very hard and doing a great job with the talent they have. Absolutely. I am really looking forward to seeing what everyone brings to the field this summer. As far as working with colleges go, stay tuned for a new program from DCI named "SOUND" Its a program that works with colleges. I only caught the tail end of it but it sounded intriguing. I had missed this. Thanks for the heads up. I have long wished to see some sort of working arrangement between colleges and corps. I'll stay tuned. :) Have a good day, DCPers. Edited January 31, 2007 by oldguard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps fan Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 looking at ways to boost II/III...all i'm going to say (because I'd get killed if I said any more) is watch for next years' rules proposals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bawker Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 looking at ways to boost II/III...all i'm going to say (because I'd get killed if I said any more) is watch for next years' rules proposals ...tease. No, seriously...is this something we should be concerned about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps fan Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 no, quite the opposite...a great great plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR_ducky Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 even though I only spent one summer instructing Div II I will say that was the one season I felt most like an instructor. Being a visual tech at a top6 corps is great but 99% of what you are doing is just traffic control, form management, and so on. In Div II we started the season with kids who had never marched, couldn't stay in time, had no clue. By the end of the season we finished 2nd in Div II and every kid was with the program. This always struck me as more impressive than Div I, especially because Div II kids get so much less practice times. When you are on tour and your start time is like 5:30, you have to stop rehearsal at 2:30 to get to the show. When I taught a top 6 corps we would practice till 5:30 or 6 most days. I love divII/III all the more because those kids are getting more of what I consider a REAL drum corps experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex VK DM Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I agree with you totally. When working with a D1 finalist, for most part when you tell a section to do something, they just go out and do it. A few minor correctes here and there, then it's up to the members to execute. When working with a D2/3 corps, you tell the kids to do something, you then have to explain and instruct them on how you want it done and in what faction. Then MANY reps later they have the concept and then are able to execute at a higher level. With less reps and more practice time, it doesn't take a math wizard to figure who is going to get better faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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