What if a "show/historically black" style corps existed?

[Morgoth Bauglir]

See, this is what I've been trying to say. All the precision in the world doesn't matter if you don't bring the soul and the passion.

But that's not true for everyone. That's true for YOU. And you only have the authority to speak for your own tastes, no one else's. If you want a certain kind of show, there are already more than enough venus offering everything you can think of. We don't need to have 4 venues offering the same thing.

What's wrong with one corps giving us a show like that so that we can have some greater diversity in performances and entertainment value? We're not talking about changing DCI into something else, but rather speculating on how one corps performing a show like that would fare in our activity.

And I have alreday postulated that the DCI judging system is set up to reward just the kind of shows we already have. A show style band would not do well because the focus of those kinds of show, everything from music selection to what to practice and hone, is not the same thing as what is considered "good" in the DCI judging rubric. If a show style band were indeed to do well, then the judging focus of DCI would have to shift away from the current "tone/precision/sophistication/excellence/cleanliness" rubric, to something else.

And it seems to me that some posters in this thread are insinuating that the current DCI shows are un-entertaining, and that is an argument that is more than worn out. If you find show bands to have more energy and enthusiasm than drum corps, and you find current drum corps un-entertaining, than you're in luck, there is already a show style band competition out there for you to attend. Have a good time.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Morgoth Bauglir

[Piper]

I'm an "old schooler" of sorts, hailing from the 80s era drum corps.

Spring Chicken! :P

[bawker]

If you find show bands to have more energy and enthusiasm than drum corps, and you find current drum corps un-entertaining, than you're in luck, there is already a show style band competition out there for you to attend. Have a good time.

The argument is not so black and white as "don't like it, leave".

If it was, Michael Boo and others from DCI wouldn't have been there at the Honda Bowl, observing....trying to look at the whys and wherefores of how that experience is similar to our own.

As the pro-everything crowd likes to point out, drum corps does not exist in a vacuum. It's been used to push amps, electronics and everything else under the sun...and perhaps, just maybe...there's something that we could learn from the Battle of The Bands. Whether that be marketing, showmanship on the field or even a new dance step (:P), to say that we're "too good" to learn from another form of entertainment is kind of self-serving.

We've pulled from Broadway, rock music, soundtracks and everything else....this is no different.

[Penn State]

OT - this just comes down to how bad you want it. I'm convinced that anyone who really wants it can have it. I took a year off of school and worked two full-time jobs while practicing every night to pull off my last year, but I have no regrets about it. There are sponsorhips, scholorships, and plain old hard work - anyone can do it if they have the drive. There are members with familys, with kids, house payments, etc. They make it work, so anyone that gives up because of money better have a really good reason, or they aren't getting any sympathy from me.

Obviously I can only speak for myself. Taking a year off from college as you suggest may have worked for you, and thats great. If I took a year off from college, that act alone would have taken me away from a lot of music, Blue Band, Pride of the Lions bball pep band, and concert band. Dr Bundy, Blue Band director, got me into Penn State. Taking a year off and not performing/marching under him so I could afford to march for someone else would have been a slap in the face to him. Would also have missed out on some unforgettable trips. Not to mention my parents would have killed me :P

[Penn State]

But that's not true for everyone. That's true for YOU. And you only have the authority to speak for your own tastes, no one else's. If you want a certain kind of show, there are already more than enough venus offering everything you can think of. We don't need to have 4 venues offering the same thing.

And I have alreday postulated that the DCI judging system is set up to reward just the kind of shows we already have. A show style band would not do well because the focus of those kinds of show, everything from music selection to what to practice and hone, is not the same thing as what is considered "good" in the DCI judging rubric. If a show style band were indeed to do well, then the judging focus of DCI would have to shift away from the current "tone/precision/sophistication/excellence/cleanliness" rubric, to something else.

And it seems to me that some posters in this thread are insinuating that the current DCI shows are un-entertaining, and that is an argument that is more than worn out. If you find show bands to have more energy and enthusiasm than drum corps, and you find current drum corps un-entertaining, than you're in luck, there is already a show style band competition out there for you to attend. Have a good time.

If any Big Ten band or HBCU band would practice as much as junior corps do, there shows would be just as clean or maybe (in the case of tOUS, UM, Illinois, PSU, FAMU, BCC) cleaner. Keep in mind HBCU bands have new halftime shows for every game (Big Ten only home games). It is unrealistic and inapropriate to compare that product to a junior corps that works on the same show for several months.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

If any Big Ten band or HBCU band would practice as much as junior corps do, there shows would be just as clean or maybe (in the case of tOUS, UM, Illinois, PSU, FAMU, BCC) cleaner. Keep in mind HBCU bands have new halftime shows for every game (Big Ten only home games). It is unrealistic and inapropriate to compare that product to a junior corps that works on the same show for several months.

That's exactly what I'm saying. They perform a new halftime show every week because that is the focus of those kinds of programs. 3 or 4 fairly easy songs with 10 drill sets total is indeed good enough for a football crowd. What would a show band look like that had 127 drill sets, difficult music, and practiced 9 hours a day for 80 days? I don't know. It doesn't exist yet. But the OP is either asking to compare something that doesn't exist to drum corps, or to compare current show bands to drum corps. There is no answer for the first one, and for the second one, the answer is IMO, the show band would do poorly.

[Penn State]

That's exactly what I'm saying. They perform a new halftime show every week because that is the focus of those kinds of programs. 3 or 4 fairly easy songs with 10 drill sets total is indeed good enough for a football crowd. What would a show band look like that had 127 drill sets, difficult music, and practiced 9 hours a day for 80 days? I don't know. It doesn't exist yet. But the OP is either asking to compare something that doesn't exist to drum corps, or to compare current show bands to drum corps. There is no answer for the first one, and for the second one, the answer is IMO, the show band would do poorly.

Thanks for clearing that up, appreciate it! Seems we are more on the same page than I originally thought.

A show done well in this style could be very popular with the crowd but could end up being written off by the judges.

I would really love to hear a corps play Tower of Power's Mr Toad's Wild Ride. Drill could be sweet for that tune!

[oldtimedrummer]

I never said it was horrible tone quality. And no matter how horrible you think it is, it is only your opinion that it's horrible. No matter how many agree with you (and I'm sure lots of people would agree with you), it's still an opinion. But maybe, just maybe, the people playing it think it fits and sounds great, to them. As well as the audiences listening to it.

You said they had horrible tone quality, intonation, and don't play very well, and now you say they seriously lack musicianship. You may not have said the word "suck" directly, but all the other words you used pretty much spell it to me.

And I really disagree that they lack musicianship. They've got tons of it. If they're lacking anything, it's uniformity of and mastery of technical skills. Two very different things, musicianship and technical skills.

I happen to have a degree in music and have an extensive professional playing career, let alone being a former music educator. I know horrible tone quality and poor musicianship when I hear it. Theses groups do bring energy and passion to their performance, I'll give them that. However, I disagree that muscianship and technical skills are two different things. Good muscianship grows out of the mastery of technical skills. How can you be truly expressive and musical without technical ability? They go hand in hand. Regardless, if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's probably a duck, no matter how much you want to spin it into something it's not. Again, I respect the energy and passion of these groups, but they do lack..... refinement.....

Edited February 1, 2007 by oldtimedrummer

[no_itsnotadash]

I don't see how this is even a discussion. All I see if DCI had shows that would appeal to the same group of people who go watch Battle of the Bands, nothing would be gained from it.

I just would just see even more ###### off drum corps fans and virtually no diffence.

You just can't blend 2 completely different things and expect everything to work out. There are many people who love the current drum corps and those love show bands. The middle ground doesn't out weight the opposing sides.

Edited February 5, 2007 by Rich

[bawker]

I don't see how this is even a discussion. All I see if DCI had shows that would appeal to the same group of people who go watch Battle of the Bands, nothing would be gained from it.

I just would just see even more ###### off drum corps fans and virtually no diffence.

You just can't blend 2 completely different things and expect everything to work out. There are many people who love the current drum corps and those love show bands. The middle ground doesn't out weight the opposing sides.

Strictly from a performance aesthetic, no......but what about taking other things...a marketing scheme, a presentation style of the product to prospective retailers, a executive committee to try to figure out how to give Finals/regionals the sense of bombast present in the HBCU product?

These are all considerations. To simply put this as "All DCI corps should play Snoop Dogg" is not the point...it's to try to ascertain if some of what we see at HBCU might be beneficial in some way to our own little world. :)