What if a "show/historically black" style corps existed?

[oldtimedrummer]

That's a major part of the "lack of entertaining shows" problem talked about by many, I think. Drum corps hasn't always been an elitist activity though, as far as I know.

I won't argue with you about what you heard in regards to intonation. Just don't say that they don't CARE about it. Same thing goes with tone quality. But they probably do care quite a bit about it. It might well be, though, that the tone quality that they're trying to achieve is very different from the kind that you would want to hear a band achieve. In other words, if you hear alot of "harsh, blasting" sounds, they might be doing it on purpose! They might think that playing with what you might call "good" tone quality isn't the right sound for the music they're playing.

Miles Davis is one of my favorite trumpet players. I remember mentioning this to some of the guys I marched with back in the day, also trumpet players, and some were like "yuck, what a horrible tone he had". Ummm... do you listen to anything other than tone? How about listening beyond that for the MUSIC he's playing!! It might just be perfect tone for the style of music he's playing!

Just because some of the people in drum corps say HBC bands suck, doesn't mean they're right.

There's a different way of thinking for both styles. A different set of top priorities. And that's not a bad thing.

I don't feel there's a lack of entertaining shows in drum corps at all. If that's your opinion, fine.

I never ever said that they don't care about intonation and tone quality. Another poster said their "audience" didn't care, and he's probably right.

I don't buy your opinion at all, that the style of music calls for horrible intonation and tone quality. That's just an excuse for poor playing IMO

I never said HBC bands suck, but IMO, most are seriously lacking musicianship.

Finally, if you think there's ANY kind of comparison between a HBC band and the top Drum corps in terms of achievement, then I seriously question ability to reason with logic. HBC bands and other similar type show bands, are what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

Edited January 31, 2007 by oldtimedrummer

[bass5]

Would any Old Schoolers be able to tell me if dc was this exclusive in the 'good 'ole days'?

I guess marching in the 60's & 70's qualifies me as being from the "good ole days".

I'd say that 'back in the day' the majority of members in drum corps were "off the street", as I was, and learned their

marching, music etc. in drum corps. It certainly wasn't "exclusive" by any means and probably leaned more toward the lower

middle class segment of society. I know I would never have been able to afford to fly to camps and pay a hefty amount for

dues. That being said I know drum corps is much more talented now then back in my day. I know for a fact that I would not

be able to march in the Scouts today with the talent level (or lack there of) that I had back then.

The Scouts did try a predominantly "black style" show in 1976 (Shaft, Pick up the pieces & Mahagony). Didn't go over to well.

Not to say if it had been written well that it wouldn't have.

[chadwick]

I work at the Georgia World Congress Center which is in association with the Georgia Dome and I worked on the Honda Battle of the Bands last weekend and last year. I would definitely agree that this may be an untapped market as they have sold out the Dome (with the exception of suites) both years. That comes to 63,000+ sold tickets both years.

For those that are wondering, there are 10 HBCU bands invited to this show and they alternate which direction they face so that fans all around the stadium get a good vantage point. The style is obviously different than that of drum corps, but there are some very talented and dedicated musicans, dancers, guard members in these bands. There was one tuba player from Bethune Cookman College that did a saxaphone solo of Amazing Grace, a very jazzy version, that was just unbelievable.

The bands do not do a large amount of marching as compared to DCI but instead do a lot of in place movements while they are playing. They really know how to throw it down, and the stadium went nuts. Three bands had featured singers and many had a DJ throughout the show. It would be interesting to see a show that incorporated characteristics of both styles of performing, minus the amped vocals of course :P

I think it is also worth mentioning that many members of the DCI board that were in Atlanta for the meetings last week attended the competition and members from the Honda Battle of the Bands attended the regional in Atlanta last summer.

[raphael18]

It has gotten so expensive to march jr. corps, who else really can afford it? I wasn't able to march jr corps (DI) due to money, and my parents were oppossed to me marching, but thats not my point. Would any Old Schoolers be able to tell me if dc was this exclusive in the 'good 'ole days'?

OT - this just comes down to how bad you want it. I'm convinced that anyone who really wants it can have it. I took a year off of school and worked two full-time jobs while practicing every night to pull off my last year, but I have no regrets about it. There are sponsorhips, scholorships, and plain old hard work - anyone can do it if they have the drive. There are members with familys, with kids, house payments, etc. They make it work, so anyone that gives up because of money better have a really good reason, or they aren't getting any sympathy from me.

[madscout96]

I don't feel there's a lack of entertaining shows in drum corps at all. If that's your opinion, fine.

I didn't say whether I felt that way or not. I just said that there are a good number of people who talk about feeling that way. That's how this thread got started, in a way.

I never ever said that they don't care about intonation and tone quality. Another poster said their "audience" didn't care, and he's probably right.

I misread that post, my fault.

I don't buy your opinion at all, that the style of music calls for horrible intonation and tone quality. That's just an excuse for poor playing IMO

I never said it was horrible tone quality. And no matter how horrible you think it is, it is only your opinion that it's horrible. No matter how many agree with you (and I'm sure lots of people would agree with you), it's still an opinion. But maybe, just maybe, the people playing it think it fits and sounds great, to them. As well as the audiences listening to it.

I never said HBC bands suck, but IMO, most are seriously lacking musicianship.

You said they had horrible tone quality, intonation, and don't play very well, and now you say they seriously lack musicianship. You may not have said the word "suck" directly, but all the other words you used pretty much spell it to me.

And I really disagree that they lack musicianship. They've got tons of it. If they're lacking anything, it's uniformity of and mastery of technical skills. Two very different things, musicianship and technical skills. In general, DCI corps are far and above HBC bands in the technical skill department.

Finally, if you think there's ANY kind of comparison between a HBC band and the top Drum corps in terms of achievement, then I seriously question ability to reason with logic. HBC bands and other similar type show bands, are what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

Well, DCI corps rehearse alot more than any style of college marching band. And most of the people participating in drum corps are better technical players, on average. So of course they're going to be better at what they do.

Edited January 31, 2007 by madscout96

[madscout96]

I work at the Georgia World Congress Center which is in association with the Georgia Dome and I worked on the Honda Battle of the Bands last weekend and last year. I would definitely agree that this may be an untapped market as they have sold out the Dome (with the exception of suites) both years. That comes to 63,000+ sold tickets both years.

For those that are wondering, there are 10 HBCU bands invited to this show and they alternate which direction they face so that fans all around the stadium get a good vantage point. The style is obviously different than that of drum corps, but there are some very talented and dedicated musicans, dancers, guard members in these bands. There was one tuba player from Bethune Cookman College that did a saxaphone solo of Amazing Grace, a very jazzy version, that was just unbelievable.

The bands do not do a large amount of marching as compared to DCI but instead do a lot of in place movements while they are playing. They really know how to throw it down, and the stadium went nuts. Three bands had featured singers and many had a DJ throughout the show. It would be interesting to see a show that incorporated characteristics of both styles of performing, minus the amped vocals of course :P

I think it is also worth mentioning that many members of the DCI board that were in Atlanta for the meetings last week attended the competition and members from the Honda Battle of the Bands attended the regional in Atlanta last summer.

Wow, you mean a drum corps person can find good things in a HBC band? :P

I'm not sure, though, that the audience at the Battle Of The Bands is an untapped market for DCI. First of all, they have been tapped :) . Secondly, are they our (DCI's) market to begin with? That audience obviously expects a certain kind of music, musicianship, visual effects, and performance altogether when they go to see a marching unit on the field. Would they find what they're looking for at a DCI show? Some might find it interesting. Some might be intrigued by it. Some might love it. Some might think it's way too vanilla. Some might be disappointed that the corps don't march, but rather walk around the field.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

So maybe this is an untapped market for our activity? There is a lot of interest in that style of show. Look at the popularity of the movie "Drumline" or the number of people that attend the Battle of the Bands (for the record, the event sold out last year and drew over 60,000 fans...yes 60,000).

We already have an activity catering to that audience. That's what we're talking about. I personally don't want one conglomerated organization producing only one type of show. If I want indoor, I watch WGI, if I want marching band, I watch BOA, if I want show bands, I watch groups that perfrom at the Honda show, and if I want drum corps I go to DCI/DCA. I don't want DCI acting and sounding like any of those other organizations. Those organizations already fill that niche. This is the same reason why I am against A&E with vocals. BOA and WGI already do that in spades. When I want to see that, I go watch them. WE don't need 2 or 3 organizations all doing the same thing. So if show style competitions draw 60,000 fans, good for them. That means there 60,000 people who like that stuff, but probably don't dig drum corps. Why should we change, and in the process give those 60,000 more of what they want but less drum corps fans what THEY want?? Those 60,000 show style fans already have their Honda Battle of the Bands. Indoor fans already have WGI. And fans of bands with vocals and electronics already have BOA. Let the drum corps fans keep DCI/DCA unchanged.

[ssorrell]

Secondly, are they our (DCI's) market to begin with? That audience obviously expects a certain kind of music, musicianship, visual effects, and performance altogether when they go to see a marching unit on the field. Would they find what they're looking for at a DCI show? Some might find it interesting. Some might be intrigued by it. Some might love it. Some might think it's way too vanilla. Some might be disappointed that the corps don't march, but rather walk around the field.

But, the question is...IF we had one or more corps that performed the style that that audience likes (like the OP suggested), would those fans of HBC find something to love in drum corps?

Perhaps.

Or maybe, given the drive to perfection that corps have, it still might come off too sterile and unemotional. One thing those black college bands have is soul, and they pour all they have into their shows. They don't seem to care about perfection of performance like drum corps do...or at least it's not their #1 focus as they seem to primarily focus on the audience and how to get them off or how to show off more than their rivals.

Those 60K+ fans at the GA Dome might not be our market, but I still think that if a corps or corps whipped out a show similar to what those bands do, at least give the audience much more consideration than they are getting now, then we might just find a broader fan base beginning to develop.

Or maybe not. I'm never going to pretend to have all the answers, just some of them. ;)

[ssorrell]

If I want indoor, I watch WGI, if I want marching band, I watch BOA, if I want show bands, I watch groups that perfrom at the Honda show, and if I want drum corps I go to DCI/DCA.

What's wrong with one corps giving us a show like that so that we can have some greater diversity in performances and entertainment value? We're not talking about changing DCI into something else, but rather speculating on how one corps performing a show like that would fare in our activity.

Personally, I'd like to see it!

[madscout96]

...

Or maybe, given the drive to perfection that corps have, it still might come off too sterile and unemotional. One thing those black college bands have is soul, and they pour all they have into their shows. They don't seem to care about perfection of performance like drum corps do...or at least it's not their #1 focus as they seem to primarily focus on the audience and how to get them off or how to show off more than their rivals.

See, this is what I've been trying to say. All the precision in the world doesn't matter if you don't bring the soul and the passion.

Those 60K+ fans at the GA Dome might not be our market, but I still think that if a corps or corps whipped out a show similar to what those bands do, at least give the audience much more consideration than they are getting now, then we might just find a broader fan base beginning to develop.

Or maybe not. I'm never going to pretend to have all the answers, just some of them. ;)

How about this: Maybe those 60K fans at the Georgia Dome aren't our untapped market. Maybe 60K other fans in and around Fulton County are.

Two questions, for anyone who can answer:

1. What was the demographic of the fans at the Battle Of The Bands? I mean like, who were musicians? who were music/band students? who were friends of family of performers? who were non-music students of participating colleges there to support their band? who was there just to see a good show?

2. Are there any other events like this that bring college marching bands together, and what kind of audience do they draw?