Corps having an off year

[CrossmenAlumni]

Since another thread was hijacked, I thought I'd create this one where the topic can rightfully be discussed. It was mentioned that because the Cadets had an off year last year, it paved the way for the Bluecoats to finish where they did.

Discuss...

[Hrothgar15]

I'd agree with that. In a normal year, even with Bluecoats at the talent level they had, Cadets would have beaten them.

That said, Bluecoats '06 is one of my favorites and was one of the best shows that year.

[tubamann]

I'd agree with that. In a normal year, even with Bluecoats at the talent level they had, Cadets would have beaten them.

That said, Bluecoats '06 is one of my favorites and was one of the best shows that year.

I disagree.

We are in an activity where minutae can make the difference between 1st and 5th. Tenths determine placements.

Cadets had to knock off some folks in their climb to the top..and so will the Coats.

Micheal Klesh once told me to be a DCI conteder you need three things. Talent, a good organization, and undenialble excellence on the field.

There are several corps in the middle ranks now striving to do just this!

[Russellrks]

There are a gazillion different factors that when combined, influence every corps final placement. Another corps having an off year, is but one of those factors. Every bit as pertinent would be a corps, such as the Bluecoats, having a great year.

[marshamello]

How silly. One year has nothing to do with the other. These are numbers of finals results based on criteria of each year, Nothing carries over and off/on years do not give weight to the next years product or outcome.

Each years final result is based on head to head competition and numbers being awarded by individuals that do not take the prior year into consideration. Its coincidence the Cadets in the past were consistent and each year's score has nothing to do with the other, or else you will have to expect Cadets to remain around a "93" based on the year that just passed.

~G~

How silly. Nobody is denying that the Bluecoats were better than The Cadets at finals last year so stop the whining! It is even more silly to say that it is "coincidence" that The Cadets were consistent in each year's score for the past 23 years. That consistency DOES indicate a level at which the AVERAGE Cadets corps will place but it is not a GUARANTEE of placement. This WAS an off year for them and had it NOT been, they WOULD have placed more in the 95.5 - 98.6 level and beaten the Bluecoats. Now, if they end the season for the next several years also in the 93 range, THEN they set a new expectation that they will likely place in that range until some consistent improvement is demonstrated over a number of years.

Now if the Bluecoats end the 2007 season with a score of 82.5 I will also say it was an off year for them and that on a typical year (based on recent history) they would have beaten The Colts. And then, The Colts beating them would be in part The Colts being strong (or at least consistent) and in part the Bluecoats having an off year.

[silvertrombone]

Be honest--if '05 Cadets happens in '06, this thread isn't in existence.

edited for brevity--take note, won't happen often

Edited February 16, 2007 by silvertrombone

[toddschultz]

I'd like to ask all the geniuses of DCP what constitutes as an off year. Is it lower placing? Is it corps A beat corps B so corps A had an off year. Is it when we think of certain corps as "not as good" so when they beat other "contenders" the previous year's "contender" was on and now they're off. Does it mean that any corps that doesn't finish first had an "off" year. I mean, is 2nd place the "First loser." I guess I will never understand the standards that people use, such as "Top 6"-top of what? Division 1, All drum corps-and can we truly know that? Is it "Top 12" because on a Saturday night in August someone was told they were the best, yet if we looked at the break down of scores two months prior the "top 12" may have looked different.

Think the people that make their blanket statements of who was on and off do so based off bias and losely based facts that they deem as who's good and who's bad.

I mean if we are going to talk about who's on and who's off, let's get down to the root of it, and I think i found it right here!

I will start in 2004

The Cavaliers had an "on" year.

These corps did not:

) 98.700 The Cavaliers Selections from Goldeneye-Hovercraft (from Die Another Day)-Tomorrow Never Dies

2) 98.525 Blue Devils Summertime (from Porgy and Bess)

3) 96.825 Santa Clara Vanguard Sheherazade

4) 95.600 The Cadets Aqualung-Living in the Past-Thick as a Brick-Bouree-Locomotive Breath-Songs from Wood-Mother Goose-Cross-eyed Mary

5) 93.575 Phantom Regiment Buenos Aires Hora Cero-La Muerte del Angel-Oblivion-Imagenes 676-Adios Nonino-Tres Minutos con la Realidad

6) 92.125 Bluecoats Ride-One Day I'll Fly Away (from Moulin Rouge)-Hunting Wabbits

7) 91.225 Carolina Crown La Boheme-Seasons of Love (from Rent)-Percussion Feature-Bohemian Rhapsody

8) 91.175 Madison Scouts Sound Piece for Jazz Orchestra-Malaga

9) 90.525 Boston Crusaders Introduction-Colored Rhythms-Colored Harmonies-Colored Dynamics-Colored Combinations-Closing

10) 87.600 Blue Knights A Knight's Tale

11) 87.425 Crossmen Jubal Step-Both Sides Now-Puma

12) 85.950 Glassmen New World Symphony

In 2003 the Blue Devils had an "on" year and these corps did not:

2) 97.25 The Cavaliers Spin Cycle

3) 97.10 The Cadets Fanfare and Allegro-Malaguena-Rocky Point Holiday

4) 94.75 Phantom Regiment Sanctus-Wild Nights from Harmonium-The Lord's Prayer (from King of Kings)-Ostinato (from Mikrokosmos)

5) 94.70 Santa Clara Vanguard Orawa for Orchestra-One Man Show (from Pollock)-Anima Mundi

6) 90.95 Boston Crusaders Bolero-Pavana (from Tres Versiones Sinfonica)-The Prayer-Concierto de Aranjuez-Spanish Fantasy-Malaguena

7) 90.75 Bluecoats Time to Take Back the Knights-Adagio for Theresa-Mediterraneo-Libertango-Code Name: Eternity

8) 89.55 Madison Scouts Jardin Chinois-Distorted-Atmadja-Urban-Reve Rouge-Incantation

9) 86.90 Crossmen Somewhere Over the Rainbow-Welcome to the St. James Club-Blue Rondo A La Turk-Count Bubba

10) 86.65 Carolina Crown Mass (from La Fiesta Mexicana)-Earth from Symphony #1-Stained Glass-Engulfed Cathedral-Carol of the Bells

11) 85.60 Magic of Orlando Sinfonia Voci-Abram's Pursuit-Sanctus (from Bernstein's Mass)-Offertory (from Mass)-Easter Symphony

12) 84.40 Spirit of JSU Time After Time-Time in a Bottle-Auld Lang Syne-Somewhere

[PurpleKnights]

I'd like to ask all the geniuses of DCP what constitutes as an off year.

Lowest score and placement for a corps in a decade?

[raphael18]

Your missing the point here, if the Cavaliers come in 5th in 07 won't it be fair to say they had an off year? I would say that Regiment had off years in 98 and 99 - and that allowed other corps to move up (for at least a little while). How about on years, I would say Glassmen were on in 98 and 99, but then went back down.

An on or off year really is determined by looking at the corps success over the long run. Various trends appear, and I think it is fair to say that Cadets had a down year last year while the Bluecoats had their best year ever. Just take it at that - you need to pull something off more than once for it to become a trend. Right now, it is just an isolated event without meanning.

[RsD]

Can we agree that Trooper and Kiwanis had an off year last year, and Magic is having one this year?