Dot or Guide

[PR_ducky]

it sounds redundant, but that's EXACTLY what the cavaliers do.

they march pure dots, they march backwards hitting their dots in a very simple way. the left-to-right is just as easy as the forward, you go from a "longitude" to another. muscle memory takes care of the front-to-back. and it works. oh yes, the simple fact that it's done is a proof that it works.

Cavaliers don't guide at all. pure dot to dot. period. end o'story.

again, for like the tenth time. Nobody marches pure dot.

It can't be done. even by the cavaliers.

yes, they emphasize dot over form, but at the end of the day, every corps uses a mix of dot and guide.

Muscle memory does not take care of front to back for the variety of reasons I mentioned in an earlier post.

I have known many kids who marched cavies, and many people who have taught cavies.

Dot is the priority, but at the end of the day, everyone guides to some degree

[PR_ducky]

OK, to save you searching the reason muscle memory does not cover marching backwards is if you learn on a flat field and then perform on a crowned field muscle memory will have you miss as you are marching either up or down hill.

If you learn in short grass then march in long grass you will come up short as muscle memory will again tell you you are moving further than you really are.

[madscout96]

Ever notice how dirty the Cavaliers are at the beginning of the season as opposed to the end?

Umm, yeah... but so is everyone else...

[JayM]

again, for like the tenth time. Nobody marches pure dot.

It can't be done. even by the cavaliers.

yes, they emphasize dot over form, but at the end of the day, every corps uses a mix of dot and guide.

Muscle memory does not take care of front to back for the variety of reasons I mentioned in an earlier post.

I have known many kids who marched cavies, and many people who have taught cavies.

Dot is the priority, but at the end of the day, everyone guides to some degree

How can you say this? You don't have the experience that those of us who have marched dot do.

That's like me trying to tell you how PR marched. I would never do that, because I don't know.

[PR_ducky]

How can you say this? You don't have the experience that those of us who have marched dot do.

That's like me trying to tell you how PR marched. I would never do that, because I don't know.

I can say it because no one marches pure dot.

I have been involved in Drum Corps for 20+years and know people who have instructed with every corps to make finals in that time span.

No matter how much emphasis is put on dot the bottom line is that every corps uses a mix of both.

Doing even basic drill moves like rotating a box, or triangle and maintaining constant size of the form requires curved paths, and in some cases inconsitent step size. No matter how much dot is emphasized you cannot acheive these drill moves with everyone doing their own thing. The transition cannot be acheived purely on dot.

I acknowledge that some corps are 90% dot, 10% form, but that is still a use of both systems and not pure dot.

[karl E. Hungus]

I can say it because no one marches pure dot.

I have been involved in Drum Corps for 20+years and know people who have instructed with every corps to make finals in that time span.

thats strange because im pretty sure i just told you i did, i also mentioned that everyone i marched with did, although i do remember one instance where a path had to be curved to improve clearance around another player carrying at bass or a tuba or something. i acknowledge that there is a chance i could be wrong but i doubt it considering the depth that the words "do not guide ever" have been burned into my brain. i was also told by a tech that before the 2000's the cavs DID at some point guide at the end of the season, so if you are basing your argument on that timeframe you would still be correct.

anyhow, my whole point in the first place was that you cant do both at the SAME time. your either guiding or not, or marching dots or not. a good analogy would be that you can only go right or left.

Edited March 9, 2007 by karl E. Hungus

[Boof96]

only one member (the pivot point) took a consistent step size,

that was me. :P

[JayM]

I have been involved in Drum Corps for 20+years and know people who have instructed with every corps to make finals in that time span.

(emphasis mine)

You've been involved in drum corps, not the Cavaliers.

Don't tell me how my corps does things.

[geluf]

The FORM *must* override your DOT for this simple reason:

If you march to your dot, but everyone else is off but a little, YOU look wrong even though you are technically right. You MUST be able to be flexible. You need to know if you are in a straight line, a curvy one, or whatever. Not everyone is the Cavaliers...and even they aren't perfect.

The Judges do not know what your dot is. They can't see your dot...but they CAN see the form.

Teach via dots...but be able to be flexible in performance.

[JayM]

There was a drill move in 2005, right at the beginning of the drum break in the final movement of the show. The baritones all jazz ran 4-to-5 for 16 counts right across the front of the field. All of our front-to-backs were either 4 or 8 steps from the sideline. Because of the nature of the move, people tended to drift to the sideline a little during the move. Noticing this, I always made sure to be exactly at 4, even if the guys in front of me were all incorrect. Sure, it made the form in correct, but I was always at 4, regardless of whether or not everyone else was, and regardless of whether or not it's a show or performance.

When you have a strict philosophy, you stick to it every step of the way. Sometimes that leads to blunders and incorrect-looking forms, but more often than not, it all works itself out in the end.

The only "guiding" I can think that happens is when everyone has to hit, say two off of a yard line, and everyone is coming in from different directions, and there's a halt at the end of the move. Say for example the final drill move of the opener from Spin Cycle. If you hit your spot, but were possibly a little off from the rest of the line, you would lean toward the line slightly to give off the illusion of a correct form.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Jayzer