General Effect vs. Execution

[NanciD]

http://tinyurl.com/ys2upe

[Jimbalaya]

Oh boy............Nanci's opened a can of worms

Geeeeeeez, them good old days, eh? :sshh:

[NanciD]

Oh boy............Nanci's opened a can of worms

Geeeeeeez, them good old days, eh? :sshh:

Here's more...

http://tinyurl.com/ytanab

Well? Any thoughts? Anyone?

[Head Animal]

Here's more...

http://tinyurl.com/ytanab

Well? Any thoughts? Anyone?

Well I'll be the first and probably show my age AND inclination. I started in the Jr's in 67 and was active all but one year till 81. I started with a company front on the left side line ending with a front on the right sideline. My last year was mid field yet back field to start and mid field to 50 front to end. I went from 2 to 6 man "squads" in formations with 3 required company fronts somewhere in the 13 minute show..to the "cirvalinear" beginnings of the 80's. I was taught RESPECT for the American flag and presenting it somewhere in the show requireing a drill instructor to CAREFULLY build a show around it.....to seeing it posted in the right hand corner to be ignored for the entire show. Of course now it's not even a requirement to bring it onto the field!!. I experinced horns with slides and rotor's mandating that arrangers transpose popular/secular music to the keys and restrictions they required...to doing nothing more than bringing orchestra horns onto a field that for generations showed the talent and inginuity of said arrangers with the afformentioned horns and allowed them to just use ordinary arrangements requireing little transposing. I remember a time when you could leave a show and sing every corps repertoire and know each corps by the style they played. Today after hearing the first 3 corps you've heard them all. I could go on...but the bottom line is that the the transition from the "Drum and Fife" corps to the "Drum and Bugle Corps" which really took place in the 30's has been lost and thrown away to be replaced with what we have today....nothing more than a glorified "college band" program which has ABANDONED execution and totally embraced theatrical, visual, "general effect" showmanship. You say "brother Dave...what the hell are you talking about?"...I was PRIVILEDGED to be a member of the front line of the "Yankee Rebels" percussion section of 1975. Reynolds judged both DCA and DCI finals that year. The week before DCA he judged Santa Clara who did a 4 tick execution show. We did a 6 tick execution show and for those who remember that night....when the gun went off he raised his clip board but remained on the field and stayed with the percussion section till the final note. He later told John Flowers that he wanted to see if we maintained the level of excellence to the very end. He stated to John that if there was a Jr/Sr corps capable of a "perfect" execution show....Santa Clara and Yankee Rebels was the two corps. Both took top GE.

Brothers and sisters I say all this to lament the loss of "center" I think Drum Corps has risen to. It has gone from a "quasi military" organization with emphasis on execution to nothing more than a glorified high school/college band format. I'm not saying I can't appreciate the difficulty of the arrangements but we've lost the very distinctiveness that separated us from the bands. There's a "difficulty" in having to arrange music in keys that slide/rotor bugles can play. There's a "difficulty" that comes with taking a 32 man percussion section and standing in a formation and "whalling" away for 32, 120, 132, etc counts and showing just how well you can execute AND give a visual general effect. There's a difficulty that comes with taking squads and formatting pictures on the field...opening up your corps to judging with company fronts, obligues, forming "pictures" that REQUIRE execution of M@M and not just undulating amaeboe type formations. Execution should BE general effect.....how in the world can a military organization like a drum corp take high general effect AND NOT execution? How in the hell can a horn line take top horns when every attack and release is sounds like a machine gun? What's the difference in the other captions? I don't care how many points you give execution vs general effect.....if you can't execute than your GE should suffer accordingly.

In closing I address those of us over 50....you may or not be still active. Search the memory banks and go back to an era when you stood inspection. When part of competing meant taking pride in uniform and equipment and making sure it was ready to stand inspection. Remember a time when color guard CAPTAIN, when Drum MAJOR, when horn, drum, CAPTAIN actually meant something and DEMANDED respect and compliance. When marching in the HONOR GUARD was an important part of corps and show and COULD cost you the show if a major mistake was made. When your most memorable moments of a show was during the color pre and the whole stadium stood up and went berserk as you presented the colors and played music that exalted this great country. THAT is what Drum Corps was...and is supposed to be about. Any organization that has it's roots in a military format CAN NOT separate execution from general effect. Execution IS general effect....if not than your just a "show corps"...........in my humble opinion.

[Ray Priester]

Well I'll be the first and probably show my age AND inclination. I started in the Jr's in 67 and was active all but one year till 81. I started with a company front on the left side line ending with a front on the right sideline. My last year was mid field yet back field to start and mid field to 50 front to end. I went from 2 to 6 man "squads" in formations with 3 required company fronts somewhere in the 13 minute show..to the "cirvalinear" beginnings of the 80's. I was taught RESPECT for the American flag and presenting it somewhere in the show requireing a drill instructor to CAREFULLY build a show around it.....to seeing it posted in the right hand corner to be ignored for the entire show. Of course now it's not even a requirement to bring it onto the field!!. I experinced horns with slides and rotor's mandating that arrangers transpose popular/secular music to the keys and restrictions they required...to doing nothing more than bringing orchestra horns onto a field that for generations showed the talent and inginuity of said arrangers with the afformentioned horns and allowed them to just use ordinary arrangements requireing little transposing. I remember a time when you could leave a show and sing every corps repertoire and know each corps by the style they played. Today after hearing the first 3 corps you've heard them all. I could go on...but the bottom line is that the the transition from the "Drum and Fife" corps to the "Drum and Bugle Corps" which really took place in the 30's has been lost and thrown away to be replaced with what we have today....nothing more than a glorified "college band" program which has ABANDONED execution and totally embraced theatrical, visual, "general effect" showmanship. You say "brother Dave...what the hell are you talking about?"...I was PRIVILEDGED to be a member of the front line of the "Yankee Rebels" percussion section of 1975. Reynolds judged both DCA and DCI finals that year. The week before DCA he judged Santa Clara who did a 4 tick execution show. We did a 6 tick execution show and for those who remember that night....when the gun went off he raised his clip board but remained on the field and stayed with the percussion section till the final note. He later told John Flowers that he wanted to see if we maintained the level of excellence to the very end. He stated to John that if there was a Jr/Sr corps capable of a "perfect" execution show....Santa Clara and Yankee Rebels was the two corps. Both took top GE.

Brothers and sisters I say all this to lament the loss of "center" I think Drum Corps has risen to. It has gone from a "quasi military" organization with emphasis on execution to nothing more than a glorified high school/college band format. I'm not saying I can't appreciate the difficulty of the arrangements but we've lost the very distinctiveness that separated us from the bands. There's a "difficulty" in having to arrange music in keys that slide/rotor bugles can play. There's a "difficulty" that comes with taking a 32 man percussion section and standing in a formation and "whalling" away for 32, 120, 132, etc counts and showing just how well you can execute AND give a visual general effect. There's a difficulty that comes with taking squads and formatting pictures on the field...opening up your corps to judging with company fronts, obligues, forming "pictures" that REQUIRE execution of M@M and not just undulating amaeboe type formations. Execution should BE general effect.....how in the world can a military organization like a drum corp take high general effect AND NOT execution? How in the hell can a horn line take top horns when every attack and release is sounds like a machine gun? What's the difference in the other captions? I don't care how many points you give execution vs general effect.....if you can't execute than your GE should suffer accordingly.

In closing I address those of us over 50....you may or not be still active. Search the memory banks and go back to an era when you stood inspection. When part of competing meant taking pride in uniform and equipment and making sure it was ready to stand inspection. Remember a time when color guard CAPTAIN, when Drum MAJOR, when horn, drum, CAPTAIN actually meant something and DEMANDED respect and compliance. When marching in the HONOR GUARD was an important part of corps and show and COULD cost you the show if a major mistake was made. When your most memorable moments of a show was during the color pre and the whole stadium stood up and went berserk as you presented the colors and played music that exalted this great country. THAT is what Drum Corps was...and is supposed to be about. Any organization that has it's roots in a military format CAN NOT separate execution from general effect. Execution IS general effect....if not than your just a "show corps"...........in my humble opinion.

THANK YOU!!!!!

Ray

[Jaminbenb]

Well I'll be the first and probably show my age AND inclination. I started in the Jr's in 67 and was active all but one year till 81. I started with a company front on the left side line ending with a front on the right sideline. My last year was mid field yet back field to start and mid field to 50 front to end. I went from 2 to 6 man "squads" in formations with 3 required company fronts somewhere in the 13 minute show..to the "cirvalinear" beginnings of the 80's. I was taught RESPECT for the American flag and presenting it somewhere in the show requireing a drill instructor to CAREFULLY build a show around it.....to seeing it posted in the right hand corner to be ignored for the entire show. Of course now it's not even a requirement to bring it onto the field!!. I experinced horns with slides and rotor's mandating that arrangers transpose popular/secular music to the keys and restrictions they required...to doing nothing more than bringing orchestra horns onto a field that for generations showed the talent and inginuity of said arrangers with the afformentioned horns and allowed them to just use ordinary arrangements requireing little transposing. I remember a time when you could leave a show and sing every corps repertoire and know each corps by the style they played. Today after hearing the first 3 corps you've heard them all. I could go on...but the bottom line is that the the transition from the "Drum and Fife" corps to the "Drum and Bugle Corps" which really took place in the 30's has been lost and thrown away to be replaced with what we have today....nothing more than a glorified "college band" program which has ABANDONED execution and totally embraced theatrical, visual, "general effect" showmanship. You say "brother Dave...what the hell are you talking about?"...I was PRIVILEDGED to be a member of the front line of the "Yankee Rebels" percussion section of 1975. Reynolds judged both DCA and DCI finals that year. The week before DCA he judged Santa Clara who did a 4 tick execution show. We did a 6 tick execution show and for those who remember that night....when the gun went off he raised his clip board but remained on the field and stayed with the percussion section till the final note. He later told John Flowers that he wanted to see if we maintained the level of excellence to the very end. He stated to John that if there was a Jr/Sr corps capable of a "perfect" execution show....Santa Clara and Yankee Rebels was the two corps. Both took top GE.

Brothers and sisters I say all this to lament the loss of "center" I think Drum Corps has risen to. It has gone from a "quasi military" organization with emphasis on execution to nothing more than a glorified high school/college band format. I'm not saying I can't appreciate the difficulty of the arrangements but we've lost the very distinctiveness that separated us from the bands. There's a "difficulty" in having to arrange music in keys that slide/rotor bugles can play. There's a "difficulty" that comes with taking a 32 man percussion section and standing in a formation and "whalling" away for 32, 120, 132, etc counts and showing just how well you can execute AND give a visual general effect. There's a difficulty that comes with taking squads and formatting pictures on the field...opening up your corps to judging with company fronts, obligues, forming "pictures" that REQUIRE execution of M@M and not just undulating amaeboe type formations. Execution should BE general effect.....how in the world can a military organization like a drum corp take high general effect AND NOT execution? How in the hell can a horn line take top horns when every attack and release is sounds like a machine gun? What's the difference in the other captions? I don't care how many points you give execution vs general effect.....if you can't execute than your GE should suffer accordingly.

In closing I address those of us over 50....you may or not be still active. Search the memory banks and go back to an era when you stood inspection. When part of competing meant taking pride in uniform and equipment and making sure it was ready to stand inspection. Remember a time when color guard CAPTAIN, when Drum MAJOR, when horn, drum, CAPTAIN actually meant something and DEMANDED respect and compliance. When marching in the HONOR GUARD was an important part of corps and show and COULD cost you the show if a major mistake was made. When your most memorable moments of a show was during the color pre and the whole stadium stood up and went berserk as you presented the colors and played music that exalted this great country. THAT is what Drum Corps was...and is supposed to be about. Any organization that has it's roots in a military format CAN NOT separate execution from general effect. Execution IS general effect....if not than your just a "show corps"...........in my humble opinion.

Great post Dave! I was in during some "transition" years (as you well know) and I have a hard time seeing the scores each year KNOWING that there isn't an actual EXECUTION caption any more! I always thought that it was what showed your talent level..sure you can play those tough notes (for the sake of notes) but can you do it CLEANLY...not the subjective crap where you get "ok...they were relatively clean" gimme a break!

I can't even begin to know what it was like to stand in "inspection" back in the day!

[gsksun4]

I can't even begin to know what it was like to stand in "inspection" back in the day!

Inspection wasn't that big a deal, unless you had tired uniforms and threads hanging all over the place, and your local white buck store ran out of shoe polish. The instruments should always be clean anyway I believe. It's was all about taking care of yourself, hair cut/shave and all.

As far as GE vs execution is concerned, the really great corps always had both. I used to think that Sac never really played anything all that difficult, but I was wrong. It's NOT that it wasn't THAT difficult, It's just that they executed the hell out of it. And, as the man ahead of me in this thread said, execution IS general effect. A good example of this was the Casper Troopers drill. Yes, they had some difficult moves, but the overall effect was the execution. They all moved as if they had the same brain. A sun burst and a 50 yard company front are not impossible, as corps in later years would show. The Troopers execution was very much a GE factor.

Edited April 12, 2007 by gsksun4

[MikeD]

snip...

In closing I address those of us over 50....you may or not be still active.

OK...I'm 53...started in 64.

Search the memory banks and go back to an era when you stood inspection. When part of competing meant taking pride in uniform and equipment and making sure it was ready to stand inspection.

Inspection was silly. "Wear and tear" covered a lot of uniform issues. If you need the threat of a tenth to make you take pride in your appearance you don't belong in the activity. Shows should not be won or lost because of a fingerprint on a buckle that is invisible from 5' away.

Remember a time when color guard CAPTAIN, when Drum MAJOR, when horn, drum, CAPTAIN actually meant something and DEMANDED respect and compliance.

And today it's different? How so?

When marching in the HONOR GUARD was an important part of corps and show and COULD cost you the show if a major mistake was made. When your most memorable moments of a show was during the color pre and the whole stadium stood up and went berserk as you presented the colors and played music that exalted this great country. THAT is what Drum Corps was...and is supposed to be about.

Thank goodness there are no mandatory elements in drum corps. Designers should be free to program whatever they wish, as is the case today. Yes, I loved some color pres, esp BS "America, the Beautiful" to name my favorite, but in general a mandatory color pre is not honoring the flag and country...it's just a set-piece rote requirement. Even in my day corps were using faux American Flags just to avoid flag violation penalites.

Any organization that has it's roots in a military format CAN NOT separate execution from general effect. Execution IS general effect....if not than your just a "show corps"...........in my humble opinion.

It's called 'performance' today, and it covers more than pure exection. Arrangements back in the day had razor edges at the start and ends of phrases that required sharp edged attacks and releases...today there are more overlapping lines between voices....more dynamic variation of the phrasing within a singel line...the style of 1967 is just not the performance style oif 2007. It's different today.

As much as I liked what I did between 64 and 72...and what I taught/judged later in the 70's...I have loved to see the progression of corps visual and musical concepts over the decades...and look forward to the next one.

[gsksun4]

Arrangements back in the day had razor edges at the start and ends of phrases that required sharp edged attacks and releases...

You are so right on this one. I remember when many a corps would end a song with the infamous Cha Cha Cha. Even though I like listening to the old stuff, I can't help but notice the very thing you stated. It's almost like the roll off in drumming. Back then, that was the norm though. Loud, sharp attacks and releases. It was almost as if the only dynamics were when the corps was marching to the back of the field and turned to the front and blew down the house.

Speaking of dynamics, that strange finish of the Boston Crusaders in 1964 with that raucus ending build into four simple soft notes and that cymbal crash. Classic!

[donincardona]

i don't see the execution anymore. it's a lot different when you have a judge standing right in front of you listening for any mistakes. it made horn & drumlines alot cleaner. they could check spacing and if your feet were the same as everyone else. also colr presentation showed respect to the flag & country. but like everything else today drum corps has gone to the dogs. and don't tell me there's more interest today. an average show in the 60's & 70's had 10,000-15,000 peole watching.