Judging

[TrishDish1002]

play nice people.

[Jak]

Now now, unless you teach a world class finalist guard you certainly have no right to question another instructor about such a thing, weither you agree with his opinion or not.

I say that because she was telling others they shouldn't be teaching color guard if they can't teach dance technique. I think that's a pretty bold statement, and I could take it a little better from someone who taught Kennesaw Mountain or Avon or some group that moves really great.

Also, in no way am I advocating doing things poorly or not fooling with technique. I certainly work very hard to train my kids. But I am a realist. And the reality is that the majority of guards you see out there don't have wonderful technique. It could be a lack of rehearsal time, a young or inexperienced guard, a young or inexperienced instructor, an apathetic attitude, or myriad other things. And we all do things to maximize our strength and hide our weaknesses. You're stupid if you don't! Whether that's staging your best performers in the front, writing in a way that features the strongest spinners, putting the freshman behind a prop, giving a solo to the best kid, writing things that the kids are good at and leaving out things they're not, putting only your more experienced kids on weapon, or creative draping to hide inconsistent foot technique. Some degree of smoke and mirrors is to be expected in this activity.

[CSHSGuardInstructor]

in no way am I advocating doing things poorly or not fooling with technique. I certainly work very hard to train my kids. But I am a realist. And the reality is that the majority of guards you see out there don't have wonderful technique. It could be a lack of rehearsal time, a young or inexperienced guard, a young or inexperienced instructor, an apathetic attitude, or myriad other things. And we all do things to maximize our strength and hide our weaknesses. You're stupid if you don't! Whether that's staging your best performers in the front, writing in a way that features the strongest spinners, putting the freshman behind a prop, giving a solo to the best kid, writing things that the kids are good at and leaving out things they're not, putting only your more experienced kids on weapon, or creative draping to hide inconsistent foot technique. Some degree of smoke and mirrors is to be expected in this activity.

Well said. The school I teach at can only give my SA guard 6 total hours of practice time a week. Even if I spent all 6 hours on dance technique, I still wouldn't mind a little 'creative draping.' To me, it's kind of the same thing as painting a design on your floor that helps with staging/drill. Why not give your kids the best possible situation for success? I mean, as long as it make sense show-wise... :)

[byline]

Also, in no way am I advocating doing things poorly or not fooling with technique. I certainly work very hard to train my kids. But I am a realist. And the reality is that the majority of guards you see out there don't have wonderful technique. It could be a lack of rehearsal time, a young or inexperienced guard, a young or inexperienced instructor, an apathetic attitude, or myriad other things. And we all do things to maximize our strength and hide our weaknesses.

So very true. When I taught, I was a stickler for technique, yet by and large my guards did not have amazing technique because of some of the things you cited. Some of the guard members just didn't care enough to really break down their work (the way I did), and so they did just enough to get by. And then they stuck out like a sore thumb. The reality is that each guard is made up of individuals. More often than not, I would prefer a lesser talented, but more highly motivated, guard person over a talented person with a bad attitude any day of the week. Unfortunately, I didn't find out these things until much later on in the season, as the guard starts to gel, and the individual weaknesses move to the forefront. And by then, it's usually too late to change the composition of your guard. So often I had to have a sort of "make due" attitude about guard technique because, even though it works my last nerve to see bad technique, lack of time to devote to it, and the issue of individual attitudes, always got in the way. That's just the reality of the way things are. "In a perfect world" . . . but it ain't.

[Musical_Spinner]

Instead of quoting this apparent mess I've made from wanting safety for performers I'll just do a general reply.

It doesn't matter where you teach, it matters about the knowledge of dance you have received. I'm a dance major and came from a guard with a professional dancer for a movement tech who knew the ins and out of injury prevention and what things minimize the risks. If you don't know the basics of dance and injury prevention then (oh no he's gonna say it!) YOU DON'T NEED TO BE TEACHING DANCE Either find someone else or teach what you know.

Jak-

HOW ON EARTH, is someone who is not qualified to teach dance going to come in and teach a bunch of young adults how to dance and the director not be worried or the performer not be worried! If you want to think I am being high and mighty about this then it's your opinion, enjoy it. As a realist I hope you know the danger that surrounds teaching classical ballet or even guard-style ballet and have taken initiative to learn about these dangers not only for whoever teach but for you as well.

I've seen so many dangerous things in WGI where you can tell the kids are not comfortable with the movement given to them, which means they are not confident and can easily hurt themselves.

Lucky us movement is based on the uniformity of the group, not necessarily on dance technique (unless you use it). The leaps don't have to be flat etc. etc. but it has to all look the same. Poor dance technique is bad bad bad though either do it with safety and do whatever you do well or find another way, point blank.

Smoke and mirrors is just something I don't agree with at all. I doubt the judges are buying into that either. I bet they are always watching something else then what is being featured looking for consistent training throughout the guard, especially after seeing the guard more than once.

[Miss Express]

I'm afraid you are misinformed. They most certainly don't charge for design. If you heard they do, you were lied to. They do have an additional charge for less than six of a design (it costs them more to make additional patterns), but it says that very plainly on the catalog. They've also made sure to tell me that in my experience. (I think this is pretty standard for most companies).

I'm sure they do have mistakes and problems with orders from time to time (they're a huge company, and no one is perfect), but their customer service has always been top-notch for me. When I had a costume I thought didn't fit, they were quick to help me out and get it taken care of (turns out I had them mixed up).

And their stuff is indeed innovative. In fact, you will find that most everyone else now copies the Band Hall. Before the Band Hall, it was next to impossible to get a beautifully designed flag or costume out of a catalog. Everything was dated and predictable. I admit that WGI has become all about the monochromatic flags and velvet costumes in recent years, which the Band Hall is largely responsible for, but imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

By the way, I'm sure you know WAY more about good design than the people at Phantom Regiment DBC, Pride of Cincinnatti, Aimachi, Center Grove, or Carmel. Because they all have Band Hall do their design. And we all know that they're idiots...

You obviously did not read what I wrote- the group I was referencing only submitted two (2) designs for the females and ended up with four (4). They only submitted two (2) designs for the males and received six (6). Had Tommy stuck with the designs he was given, the $25 extra per uni charge would have been avoided. I make costumes for a living- does the Tennesee State Ballet qualify as a legitimate organization (I mean, they are no POC but.. I deserve a little credit) and many many years ago I made costumes for many successful DBC's and Indoor Guards. So I do believe I know what I am talking about. And I guess the fact that Mickey Kelly (my old friend) called Tommy personally several times to discuss the designs and requested that the males be sleeveless, and all the pants be black meant nothing to him. He also told me the staff had to pay someone else to fix three of the girls uniforms because they were grossly grossly oversized. (how do you put a 110 lb kid, and a 200 lb kid in a size 12, when accurate measurements were submitted?). Surprisingly enough, none of his phone calls requesting that the especially dissatisfatory uni's be adjusted or replaced were returned.

Maybe the groups just fell through the cracks, but Band Hall will not be on my backup list should I become swamped with work. Algy, FJM, and a Wish Come True- DEFINITELY.

Thats fine- continue wasting your money.

By the way, The Light Brigade is another World Class group that The Band Hall did.

And I never said that the Instructors of those other groups were idiots. I respect those people very much, and have worked with, or taught many of them. I am merely stating that you can not always count on the Band Hall.

[Jak]

Instead of quoting this apparent mess I've made from wanting safety for performers I'll just do a general reply.

It doesn't matter where you teach, it matters about the knowledge of dance you have received. I'm a dance major and came from a guard with a professional dancer for a movement tech who knew the ins and out of injury prevention and what things minimize the risks. If you don't know the basics of dance and injury prevention then (oh no he's gonna say it!) YOU DON'T NEED TO BE TEACHING DANCE Either find someone else or teach what you know.

Jak-

HOW ON EARTH, is someone who is not qualified to teach dance going to come in and teach a bunch of young adults how to dance and the director not be worried or the performer not be worried! If you want to think I am being high and mighty about this then it's your opinion, enjoy it. As a realist I hope you know the danger that surrounds teaching classical ballet or even guard-style ballet and have taken initiative to learn about these dangers not only for whoever teach but for you as well.

I've seen so many dangerous things in WGI where you can tell the kids are not comfortable with the movement given to them, which means they are not confident and can easily hurt themselves.

Lucky us movement is based on the uniformity of the group, not necessarily on dance technique (unless you use it). The leaps don't have to be flat etc. etc. but it has to all look the same. Poor dance technique is bad bad bad though either do it with safety and do whatever you do well or find another way, point blank.

Smoke and mirrors is just something I don't agree with at all. I doubt the judges are buying into that either. I bet they are always watching something else then what is being featured looking for consistent training throughout the guard, especially after seeing the guard more than once.

I'm not trying to argue the value in having a qualified dancer teach your color guard. And I certainly make sure that my kids get that. But I am again trying to be a realist. Keep in mind that I'm not talking about the World Class or even Open Class groups out there. I'm talking about the hundreds and hundreds of A Guards, Novice Guard, Cadet guards, etc. that don't have the luxury of hiring someone with a dance background. I also know that someone who is a great technician is probably not going to have a guard with perfect technique. Individuals learn at different rates and have different abilities. Unless you are in a situation like Logan, Avon, Pride, etc. where you have feeder guards and only take your best students in the World guard, you're going to have all kinds of ability levels present, and you have to do whatever possible to blend them.

By the way, this is from the WGI website, regarding expectations for judges for the 2007 season:

"Do not 'search' for weakness at the expense of evaluating the feature that is staged for that moment. Don't miss the obvious in favor of searching for a weakness. Every single guard, if they are smart, will place their strongest performers in a featured place on stage. This is expected. Learn to separate the various stages of development within sections and within each guard's membership and don't lose sight of the fact that they are all in a learning/growing process. This will be most pronounced in the A classes and will become less obvious in the Open Class and may not exist at the World Class level."

As much as we would like to think that there is one technique that is "right," that's just not true in WGI. What matters is consistency person to person. Even something as basic as pointing your toes is not required. The designer can make the choice to have flexed feet, as long as everyone approaches it the same way. Mike Turner once told me in Critique that a series of battements and sautes needed to be defined as happening in 2nd or in the student's natural turn out. He said either one was equally creditable, but it had to be clear what the choice was.

[Jak]

You obviously did not read what I wrote- the group I was referencing only submitted two (2) designs for the females and ended up with four (4). They only submitted two (2) designs for the males and received six (6). Had Tommy stuck with the designs he was given, the $25 extra per uni charge would have been avoided. I make costumes for a living- does the Tennesee State Ballet qualify as a legitimate organization (I mean, they are no POC but.. I deserve a little credit) and many many years ago I made costumes for many successful DBC's and Indoor Guards. So I do believe I know what I am talking about. And I guess the fact that Mickey Kelly (my old friend) called Tommy personally several times to discuss the designs and requested that the males be sleeveless, and all the pants be black meant nothing to him. He also told me the staff had to pay someone else to fix three of the girls uniforms because they were grossly grossly oversized. (how do you put a 110 lb kid, and a 200 lb kid in a size 12, when accurate measurements were submitted?). Surprisingly enough, none of his phone calls requesting that the especially dissatisfatory uni's be adjusted or replaced were returned.

Maybe the groups just fell through the cracks, but Band Hall will not be on my backup list should I become swamped with work. Algy, FJM, and a Wish Come True- DEFINITELY.

Thats fine- continue wasting your money.

By the way, The Light Brigade is another World Class group that The Band Hall did.

And I never said that the Instructors of those other groups were idiots. I respect those people very much, and have worked with, or taught many of them. I am merely stating that you can not always count on the Band Hall.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I've always had very positive experiences with the Band Hall and will continue "wasting my money." They still do the best design of any of the companies, and they are almost singlehandedly responsible for bringing costuming and flags into the 21st century (though there have been many to follow their lead).

[zackiedude]

Here's how I look at it... Yes, teaching should be about teaching excellence. But overall it should be about giving kids the tools they need to be successful in life. It should change their lives for the better. And if all you can do is teach them to do slams and drop spins while walking turned-in, if it changes their lives, then DO IT. Yes, people cringe when they see a bad guard, but you know what, those kids are learning the exact same things about life and dedication that the top World guards are. And if I personally don't have the tools to bring out an amazing guard, I will sure as heck bring out a decent (or even bad) one if it positively affects kids.

[Will]

Here's how I look at it... Yes, teaching should be about teaching excellence. But overall it should be about giving kids the tools they need to be successful in life. It should change their lives for the better. And if all you can do is teach them to do slams and drop spins while walking turned-in, if it changes their lives, then DO IT. Yes, people cringe when they see a bad guard, but you know what, those kids are learning the exact same things about life and dedication that the top World guards are. And if I personally don't have the tools to bring out an amazing guard, I will sure as heck bring out a decent (or even bad) one if it positively affects kids.

AMEN!!