Musical_Spinner Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Easy and Clean always beats Hard and Dirty if you are in the A or Open class. We are talking about World class. World class guards, especially the top 3 are supposed to set new standards of vocabulary and excellence for the activity. Easy and clean always beats hard and dirty and I'll stick to that in any class. I've seen this rule broken once in 2003 when Fantasia beat Patriots for the bronze.....Fantasia dropped everywhere (more than twenty, no lie) and yet still beat them because it was "harder" EVEN THOUGH Patriots always set new standards and excellence......That is just some bad judging imo, where hard and dirty beat groundbreaking and clean. Vocabulary is stagnant in world class lately, especially in 05,06,07.....I haven't seen anything that really hasn't been done before except some consistently higher tosses (NL specifically, now gone). It's now a battle of design and GE and that is why I think Aimachi got the bronze over the other guards who haven't broken down barriers for design. (NEi, Corona, PR, and Blessed Sac haven't done anything special design wise, although NEi and Corona's technique and performance always gets better, Blessed Sac can't get over the hump to win that gold for some reason) RECAP: New standards are being set for design and judges are into it........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Amachi was not doing easy stuff by any stretch. They definitely had world class vocabulary. And other than two short baton features, most of the show was standard equipment with just a baton soloist or duet. Did you see the rifle line throw a 5 and turn, turn, attitude, turn, catch? There certainly wasn't anyone else in World Class doing that! And I'll say again that no other guard in World Class was as clean or had technique as flawless as Amachi. As far as judging beauty, I guess that is a subjective term. But they are supposed to evaluate use of color, costumes, props, floor, set, etc. And there's nothing wrong with solid flags if they're done well (a la late 90's Center Grove). There were several groups this year that I thought were beautifully designed: Pride, Fantasia, Amachi, Phantom, Center Grove, Carmel, Choctaw to name a few. There were others (who shall remain nameless) who looked like they picked up a floor at Goodwill, a costume at guardcloset.com, and a couple of flags at a yard sale. Then they threw them all together to see what would turn out. I still say you shouldn't be able to get big effect numbers without coordinating these basic things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishDish1002 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 As far as judging beauty, I guess that is a subjective term. But they are supposed to evaluate use of color, costumes, props, floor, set, etc. And there's nothing wrong with solid flags if they're done well (a la late 90's Center Grove). There were several groups this year that I thought were beautifully designed: Pride, Fantasia, Amachi, Phantom, Center Grove, Carmel, Choctaw to name a few. There were others (who shall remain nameless) who looked like they picked up a floor at Goodwill, a costume at guardcloset.com, and a couple of flags at a yard sale. Then they threw them all together to see what would turn out. I still say you shouldn't be able to get big effect numbers without coordinating these basic things. Goodwill has floors now?? how much? :sarcasm off: Mean statement. Watch it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Goodwill has floors now?? how much? :sarcasm off:Mean statement. Watch it! I didn't name names! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I didn't name names! True. But your meaning is still quite clear. You know, not everyone can afford big-name designers and/or gorgeous uniforms. I remember back to Skylarks, who (from what I understood) had very little money. So they basically took pieces of previous years' uniforms and integrated them into the next year's uniform and flags. I'm thinking back to their '82 space show, followed by their '83 "Arabian Nights" show. I don't think a guard should be penalized just because they don't have the big bucks to buy spectacular stuff. My feeling is that if a guard achieves pulls together a solid visual program that interprets the music they choose, using whatever means at their disposal, and then executes it convincingly, then they have done their job. Having a budget that can afford all the bells and whistles shouldn't be a basic requirement to succeed in WGI, DCI, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I was just joking about the Goodwill thing. My point was that some of the groups made no effort to coordinate their design. It doesn't have to be about money. You can wear cheap costumes, solid color flags, and an old floor. But they shouldn't look like they were picked by three different people. They need to be unified and adhere to some sort of color pallette. FYI, the Band Hall will do beautiful desings for you (they did Pride, Carmel, Center Grove, Amachi, etc.) and they don't charge a thing, so long as you buy your costume and flag fabric from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Thanks for the clarification; now I understand what you mean. I guess that for far too long, I've seen too much of an emphasis on big budgets to achieve good design. As you note, good design isn't synomymous with big bucks (but often that's the assumption). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crfrey71 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 (edited) My eye-operner was the finals of SA. Can someone please explain to me why you had guards dropping 5-8 whole points from semis to finals. It seemes like that any SA guiard that scored 92 in semis was going to stay there or score higher and any guard that just broke 90-91, was going to drop atleast 2-3 whole points and more. Anybody have an explanation for that? Edited April 17, 2007 by crfrey71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick Stack Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 (edited) There's a new article on the WGI website that gives most of the breakdowns for the Independent World class, including some sub-captions. I feel like they were pretty much dead on for Aimachi- Extremely high on Performance captions, low on Vocabulary captions. 11th place in equipment vocabulary. Edited April 17, 2007 by Stick Stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishDish1002 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I was just joking about the Goodwill thing. My point was that some of the groups made no effort to coordinate their design. It doesn't have to be about money. You can wear cheap costumes, solid color flags, and an old floor. But they shouldn't look like they were picked by three different people. They need to be unified and adhere to some sort of color pallette.FYI, the Band Hall will do beautiful desings for you (they did Pride, Carmel, Center Grove, Amachi, etc.) and they don't charge a thing, so long as you buy your costume and flag fabric from them. Sure. If you can afford The Band Hall go for it! Not everyone can though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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