Dr. Beat vs. The Drum Major

[rmurrey74]

The pit always listens back, that's different. I was talking about the hornline more or less. Sorry if I wasn't specific.

So, the pit listens back then why wouldn't the horns near the front of the field listen back?

If you line up 6 people on the field front to back and everyone throws those baseballs towards the audience, all 6 baseballs need to reach the audience at the same time. This means the people closer to the front have to throw (play) later than the people behind them.

Obviously this is not always the drumline. It's the pulse pocket which changes from set to set depending on horizontal or vertical alignment to the pulse center.

[supersop]

That's how my corps currently does it. I can't understand how having everyone play with the hands actually works. Put a drummer 3 feet from the drum major and have him play with his/her hands. Then put him behind the back hash and do the same thing. It's a very noticeable difference.

And everyone at Star did that and everything lined up? Really? That's certainly impressive if they were able to break the speed of sound rules. Did Star's pit play with the hands?

I'm not trying to be critical, I just haven't seen any explanation of how that could work.

There was a very good explanation by the SCV DM on page 4. The battery sets the tempo ... the DM conducts either to what they hear .. or what they see (center snare feet). Everything else is adjustment based on staging and field position.

Example. The battery is holding the pulse ... the drum major is conducting to what they hear. The battery is centered on the 50 at mid field. Everyone in front of mid field and between the 40's or 35's are listening back. Outside the 35's or behind the drumline ... you anticipate the beat or play ahead of the DM's hands. The importance of all methods to is to realize when to play with, ahead or behind and be conscious of your responsibilities. Any good staff will point out where the errors are on the field ... and correct accordingly.

This can all be done with or without the Dr. beat. It all depends on what method the staff subscribes to ... what they're comfortable with. Either the DM listens and conducts .. or ingores what they hear and conducts to the pulse center's feet. Everyone else on the field has the job of knowing their responsibility... whether to listen, watch or anticipate.

[Medeabrass]

in the summer, it gets used during ensemble the first time or two through a chunk just to make sure the battery is playing at the right tempo. i can see how this is incompatible with a star-style "always watch" system, which makes each member adjust to the drum major depending on their field positioning, whereas another method is for the battery to play the written tempo (disregarding the drum major), and have the drum major make the brass line sounds match up with the battery parts.

This is the part that is kinda weird to me in hindsight. The star-style did NOT involve adjusting depending on where you were. I just remember being told to have the feet with "The Major" and that was it. No other adjustments needed. I can't explain how it works cuz really it doesn't make sense that it would now that I think about it. I'm hoping another Star-type will chime in.

My head hurts thinking about all of the playing "in front of" or "behind" the DMs hands. That sounds so difficult to me...it seems like it could be interpreted so differently by each member.

[rmurrey74]

There was a very good explanation by the SCV DM on page 4. The battery sets the tempo ... the DM conducts either to what they hear .. or what they see (center snare feet). Everything else is adjustment based on staging and field position.

Example. The battery is holding the pulse ... the drum major is conducting to what they hear. The battery is centered on the 50 at mid field. Everyone in front of mid field and between the 40's or 35's are listening back. Outside the 35's or behind the drumline ... you anticipate the beat or play ahead of the DM's hands. The importance of all methods to is to realize when to play with, ahead or behind and be conscious of your responsibilities. Any good staff will point out where the errors are on the field ... and correct accordingly.

This can all be done with or without the Dr. beat. It all depends on what method the staff subscribes to ... what they're comfortable with. Either the DM listens and conducts .. or ingores what they hear and conducts to the pulse center's feet. Everyone else on the field has the job of knowing their responsibility... whether to listen, watch or anticipate.

Thanks! I understand all of that. That's how I've always done it or taught it. Maybe I wasn't clear. I just can't understand how everyone at Star played with the drum majors hands no matter the position on the field and everything lined up.

[Medeabrass]

That's how my corps currently does it. I can't understand how having everyone play with the hands actually works. Put a drummer 3 feet from the drum major and have him play with his/her hands. Then put him behind the back hash and do the same thing. It's a very noticeable difference.

And everyone at Star did that and everything lined up? Really? That's certainly impressive if they were able to break the speed of sound rules. Did Star's pit play with the hands?

I'm not trying to be critical, I just haven't seen any explanation of how that could work.

I agree with you. Like my previous post said, I have no frickin' idea how it works It was very counter-intuitive to me and still is I guess...This technique applies to the brass section only. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the staff just hounded us bout tempo more when we were really far away from the 50 which resulted in us playing ahead of the ensemble without consciously knowing that's what they were encouraging us to do...whoa, mind trip oh I need rest..."Corps Ready Sleep!!! "

I really don't know what the drummers/pit did. I think our pit used to listen back to the battery but I can't say for certain.

[SCVStu]

One other note. I never watched the Snares feet, or anyones feet. I was in complete control of the tempo. Of course I would adjust to what was going on, but I was in control. I had the advantage of having AMAZING snare players at SCV, so I always was in constant communication with the center snare throughout the performance, so we were able to work together to make things happen. The only time that the Drum Line was in control of tempo was in the drum solo in the third movement of 2003. The Drum Line was in the front and the horns were behind and off center to them. So, I had to conduct about an 8th note ahead of the sound that I was hearing from the DL to line it all up. We were having all kinds of issues trying to make it work and then I said let me try something to the staff and it all lined up. I remember the staf saying, I don't even want to know what you did, just do it every time. Oh good times indeed. Check out the video, its crazy =)

My personal opinion here, but if the conductor is just conducting to the snares feet, then whats the freaking pont of being up there. If you cant handle keeping the time and holding an ensemble together, then you shoudln't be up there. Thats just my two cents =)

[rut-roh]

This is the part that is kinda weird to me in hindsight. The star-style did NOT involve adjusting depending on where you were. I just remember being told to have the feet with "The Major" and that was it. No other adjustments needed. I can't explain how it works cuz really it doesn't make sense that it would now that I think about it. I'm hoping another Star-type will chime in.

Basically, put your feet with the drum major's hands and then play to your feet. Or something like that. :)

[84BDsop]

My personal opinion here, but if the conductor is just conducting to the snares feet, then whats the freaking pont of being up there. If you cant handle keeping the time and holding an ensemble together, then you shoudln't be up there. Thats just my two cents =)

You had the advantage of being with SCV, Stuart....if you had a battery that rarely looked up at you (Dream 04) you didn't have a lot of options.

When I mentioned that I started Jupiter too fast??? I tried to slow it down when I heard the alto lick near the beginning...and if you watch the video you can see me looking at the battery and pointing at my eyes when they took off out of a halt...the brass stayed with me, but the battery didn't....HUGE ensemble tear -- there was even a tear between the snares and tenors...it didn;t heal up until a phrase where the battery wasn't play and they FINALLY looked up.

Had they looked up at any time we could've worked it out to slow things down on the fly...as it was, between my starting too fast and the batter not looking, we ended up 7 seconds undertime...4/10ths in oenalties...dropped 2 places.

The 03 line DID look at me, and we never had the same kind of bad tears.

[Jared_mello]

I don't really think there's ever a point you should be listening to anything for tempo, that's how tears and tempo fluctuations happen.

i know you gave the "different corps do different things" disclaimer towards the end, but this first statement is false.

Edited May 17, 2007 by Jared_mello

[Jared_mello]

in '04 when bob dubinsky (of star drumline fame) was helping us out in paoli, IN (hell), i cant even tell you how often he stressed to ALWAYS be with the drum major, and be precisely with the hands at all times. things started lining up towards the end of rehearsal, once everyone started trusting the "system."

i guess thats why they noticably always had the "everyone doing everything the exact same way" aspect of drum corps down.

silly star people and their crazy ideologies.