Talent Pool--members who got cut.

[EKBari]

It might not be their fault, but it had darn well better be their concern. While DCA has been expanding quite rapidly over the last several years, Jr. Drum and Bugle Corps' have been going inactive or perishing altogether at an alarming rate, and it's not just D3 and D2 either. D1 can't even fill out it's top 25.

DCA is expanding because (IMO) it is relatively cheaper to start and operate an all-age corps than it is to operate a Div. 1 corps. Also, membership tends to be more local and because of that, community support is stronger. Add to that the fact that DCA corps mainly perform on weekends and select weekdays and outside of finals on Labor Day weekend, most of them rarely leave their home region so it's less expensive for them to get things going. DCI with it's national touring model as well as it's national recruiting, doesn't have that.

Kids on the field is not the reason as to why a lot of DCI corps fold, but rather the adults behind the scene not having an idea as to how to run a corps.

[audiodb]

A lot of people forget that. DCI are the member corps for the member corps.

(rolls eyes)

Must we debate this again? Should I quote DCI's mission statement again, you know, the part about "promotional, educational and service arm of the drum & bugle corps activity"? Or remind you that when DCI took over the regional circuits, they took responsibility for those regions' corps?

[WWonka]

(rolls eyes)

Must we debate this again? Should I quote DCI's mission statement again, you know, the part about "promotional, educational and service arm of the drum & bugle corps activity"? Or remind you that when DCI took over the regional circuits, they took responsibility for those regions' corps?

Oh no... from reading your posts in the past I think we pretty much have the same take on this. That is part of the problem with forums and the internet. You miss the tone.

It was meant with a sarcastic, cynical tone. That is the patent answer you get when you mention things like you did in your reply. Don't get me started :)

If I were king for a day, every one would have to contribute X dollars to general operating fund to promote growth and foster new corps. And like someone said above move the Div II and III to a more regional and hopefully growth orientated model. The DCA, more local support, cheaper, etc. model has a future. There is a reason DCA is growing.

[saraqsfan]

This argument rears its ugly head several times a year. The Division I gang doesn't like to hear it, but the truth of the matter is that many of the kids that are cut from those corps are NOT encouraged to go to Division II/III to march. We are not the ######## stepchilds of the activity. Let's state the facts.. for as far as "we" have come in 21 years (YES! it's been that long since the smaller sized corps took an active role in charting their future) some things just haven't moved as quickly as we might have liked.

As a music educator who is involved in drum corps, I cannot tell you how much it infuriates me to receive recruitiment materials for Div. I corps in my school mailbox. Especially when I teach at the junior high school level- there is no way that ANY div. I program wants my 7th and 8th grade students. I encourage kids to do Division II/III because I believe in the programs, I know that they will receive good instruction and I also believe that this particular level is still what drum corps is all about. Our kids can sometimes hold down a part time job, do family stuff, go to summer school, etc. Vince Lombardi once said, "winning isn't everything.. it's the ONLY thing".. what he forgot to elaborate on was that there are many different ways to "win". I have friends in the teaching business who tell their kids to only audition for Division I corps.. how sad.. many high school programs do not teach at the level that is necessary to succeed at the Div. I level. However, most high school musicians could make a HUGE impact on Division II/III programs across the continent. You tell me. What's the better choice?

There are still too many people out there who believe that bigger corps means better corps, and that's very sad. There were a lot of "bigger" corps on the field last summer that weren't exactly "better" corps. Before you take a stand one way or the other.. why not attend a division II/III contest and decide for yourself?

If you want to see drum corps on ALL levels prosper and grow, put your money where your mouth is and encourage EVERY student that auditions to march somewhere. Merely purchasing Corps "X" drum video and watching it ad nauseum all summer will not make as students as viable a candidate in '08 as marching someplace in '07 will. Contra John makes a good point when he says that corps need to assess their recruting programs and fix what is broken, but that is only half the problem. It's all about respect. If you truly respect the drum corps activity, encourage everyone to march SOMEPLACE.

The Div I gang will always have more potential students than they know what to do with. Make the world a better place..mentor a corps in your area.. get to know their staff, stay in touch with their director.. set up a stiuation where YOUR age outs will have a place to teach in '08 if they so desire. We ALL need the same things.. young men and women between the ages of 12 and 21 who like to march, play an instrument, or spin flags and rifles.

Yeah, yeah, I can hear it already... I'm just another disgruntled II/III person who feels that big bad DCI is out to get me.. Not the case.. I just want to see all corps survive. Some corps DO need a little help from time to time, and that spans all levels of the activity.

[WWonka]

saraqsfan I didn't quote your post but I agree with what you said 100%. But this is also coming from a person who marched Class A and had a daughter in Div III. Some don't share the perspective.

[LancerFi]

Corps Fan,

This statement always confuses me. Please elaborate your reasoning for making such a statement. Members will always gravitate to first class organizations no matter what division they are. This is another example of Div II/III’s blaming their woes on Div I's.

You need to be more open to the fact that some Div II's and III's may not be deserving of these extra members whether it be due to lack of proper staffing, equipment, management, support or even funding. Div I's are not immune to these problems and those corps have trouble retaining their members.

If you have troubles in your recruiting department, then you need to evaluate what your organization is doing wrong and fix it. I have been involved with numerous Div III's corps that have had recruiting problems. Every one of them, at that time, had good reasons for members not joining. They suffered from either one, a combination of, or even all the problems that I listed above.

Two of them have since folded and the other one did a remarkable job of turning things around to become a strong Div I contender.

I'm not sure if I totally agree with the above. Although it was a very different time when I marched, it was my experience that many people in the early 70s who could have gone to BAC, 2-7, or anyone of the D1 or even top 12 corps did not for many reasons. It was not for lack of talent nor would it have been a problem making the lines of those other corps but many times friendships were formed and loyalty was a huge factor in either joining or staying a year or 2 or 3 extra in a corps (in this case the I.C. Reveries) that was Division 1 but did not have a full complement and attended mainly local shows.

Saying that these corps are not deserving of a member kind of puts these corps in a bad light. To evaluate what your organization is doing wrong and fix it might be overgeneralizing. Many years we (2-7) could not fill our lines and had people filling spots. I hope you don't think that only DIV2 & 3 have recruiting problems. I still see corps looking to fill spots here on DCP - top 12 corps.

Of course as I said in the beginning, it was a very different era and there were so many fabulous drum corps within a few miles of Boston that recruiting did become somewhat of a problem.

Just my 27 cents.

[AdamJ]

One thing we did with Teal Sound this offseason was to stay in constant contact with the vets from last year and we recruited heavily at the band shows throughout Florida. We built a list of over 600 potentially interested members to audition for the corps. Weekly emails to those potential members went out regularly and at the end of it all we had over 270 kids audition for the corps this year.

As a director, I too have heard the same thing about the Div. II/III myth of, "I don't want to march with anyone except a Div. I corps and if I can't do that, I just won't march". Let me tell you, that is not a rumor but in fact, is the case. However, here at Teal, we have established a program and concept here that the members who have come in this season have all said that they see nothing different with what we do at our level vs. that of what is done at a Div. 1 level. We even have several members who have marched Div. 1 and feel that this is equally as hard and offers the same level of instruction, competition and environment that any other corps offers.

The other southern drum corps have been very receptive and helpful in passing names along to us of members that have been cut or did not make the final spots in their corps. They have also recommended to those same folks that they ought to come and check it out, of which many have. I think what it all boils down to is, that if a person really wants to march in a drum corps for the right reasons, then they will look at all possibilities, not just a Div. 1 corps. Everyone gets their start in the activity somewhere and there are only so many spots available in the Div. 1 corps, so why not go and see what it is all about before saying NO to Div. II/III! You might be surprised at what you find.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[MARK74]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Also , back when there were so many drum corps in the BOSTON area ,there were many more everywhere .From my home in central New York,

within an hour and a half in EVERY direction there were a total of about 20 drum corps. Were any of them NATIONAL TOURING QUALITY? yes there were 2 or 3.

The difference between then and now? THEN you could do 12 contests a year , mostly weekends only, going to one or two National competitions ( there were MANY and 4-5 days at a timewas usually enough)and your members were happy to be doing drum corps. I might add that many of the corps would,today, be considered DivII/III but had to compete with "the big guys" as no seperate division existed except all girl and even they were often just tossed into the mix.

NOW unless your touring nobody wants to march with you for very long. We had kids play 5,8,12 years in drum corps then IT WAS NORMAL TO DO THAT. NOW many times a kid will join when he's 15 , we beat the life out of him ,charging him $1200.00-$1500.00 a season ,rehearse everyday. Put him on a bus for a month solid and BURN HIM/HER OUT IN

T-H-R-E-E YEARS. Yet the question seems to be WHAT ARE THE DIV II/III corps doing wrong? In short it's THE ACTIVITY that has gone very wrong. It's supposed to be ABOUT THE KIDS . How can you say that's true when it doesn't matter that there are less than 6,000 kids involved in the entire country.And in div I if one drops out just call another of the 30 people who wanted his spot.

Not many people play more than three. Don' start telling me about how YOU may have marched 5 or 6 because YOU are one of a few hundred exceptions in the last ten years.

BOTTOM LINE THE PERCEIVED NEED FOR EXPENSIVE/EXTENSIVE TOURING AND A LACK OF EMPHASIS ON THE EXPERIENCE OF DRUM CORPS will/is killing drum corps

Edited June 19, 2007 by MARK74

[It's Godzilla!]

Let's not kid ourselves about these 300 people that try out for the top Div1 corps. Not all of them were free agents. When I tried out for a top 3 corps last year, I'd say at least 70% of the kids trying out already had corps experience. Of 40 or so people I had actual conversations with, there were alums of Phantom, BAC, Magic, Cadets, Mandarins, Bucs, Brigs, Hurricanes, Sunrisers, Bushwackers, Pioneer, ECJ, and a hell of a lot more that I don't remember. And that doesn't include the returning vets.

My point is, that just because they didn't make the top corps doesn't mean they're free agents. They had a home before they tried out, and that's probably where they'll return to, as I did.

[AdamJ]

Also , back when there were so many drum corps in the BOSTON area ,there were many more everywhere .From my home in central New York,

within an hour and a half in EVERY direction there were a total of about 20 drum corps. Were any of them NATIONAL TOURING QUALITY? yes there were 2 or 3.

The difference between then and now? THEN you could do 12 contests a year , mostly weekends only, going to one or two National competitions ( there were MANY and 4-5 days at a timewas usually enough)and your members were happy to be doing drum corps. I might add that many of the corps would,today, be considered DivII/III but had to compete with "the big guys" as no seperate division existed except all girl and even they were often just tossed into the mix.

NOW unless your touring nobody wants to march with you for very long. We had kids play 5,8,12 years in drum corps then IT WAS NORMAL TO DO THAT. NOW many times a kid will join when he's 15 , we beat the life out of him ,charging him $1200.00-$1500.00 a season ,rehearse everyday. Put him on a bus for a month solid and BURN HIM/HER OUT IN

T-H-R-E-E YEARS. Yet the question seems to be WHAT ARE THE DIV II/III corps doing wrong? In short it's THE ACTIVITY that has gone very wrong. It's supposed to be ABOUT THE KIDS . How can you say that's true when it doesn't matter that there are less than 6,000 kids involved in the entire country.And in div I if one drops out just call another of the 30 people who wanted his spot.

Not many people play more than three. Don' start telling me about how YOU may have marched 5 or 6 because YOU are one of a few hundred exceptions in the last ten years.

BOTTOM LINE THE PERCEIVED NEED FOR EXPENSIVE/EXTENSIVE TOURING AND A LACK OF EMPHASIS ON THE EXPERIENCE OF DRUM CORPS will/is killing drum corps

So are you saying that the Div II/III corps need to take it easy and have a relaxed environment? I swear, if I made a Div II/III corps, and they took it easy on me, I'd quit. I don't want to march Drum Corps so that I can learn some music, take it easy, and then play in some shows. I want to get GOOD. I want to become great so that I can make a better DCI or WGI line. If that means beating the crap out of me all summer, so be it.