Fred Windish

Wow! You’ve been around a long time, fella. Your continued interest in bands/drum corps is much appreciated. Saw my first Lehigh football game in 1963. Now, live across the street from Goodman campus and can hear the Marching ‘97 practice when stepping outside my home. Fred (age 71)

I’m old enough to remember how much more fun (for everyone involved) a drum corps show really was. The melody we could latch on to. A lasting individual personality and appearance of each team. The natural, big brass sound. Formal movement into various forms done to perfection. Spontaneous standing ovations throughout the production. Of course, we still get some of that. Just not enough for my taste. Oh, well. I’m not impressed by scattered running from one standstill into another. That’s what we always accepted comically from the Princeton Band, but DCI?

gunther - I am dismayed to read your impressions of what is, and has been, the organization known as Drum Corps Associates (DCA). I assume your name really is Gunther, but can say I never met anyone named Gunther during my many years participating with DCA in different capacities. It appears, your corps had a disappointing attempt to earn membership in DCA. That happened frequently to other corps through the years. It all comes down to scores. Nothing more. I believe you misunderstand what DCA was/is. I call it a “kitchen table” group. There are NO employees in the typical sense. There is no physical office space other than in a few private homes. No receptionist to answer the phone. The business of DCA is handled for the most part by volunteers who have actual employment elsewhere. These are, in effect, dedicated volunteers. They bring a variety of work experiences to their efforts. From low hourly wage earners to corporate executives . . . in their private lives. Many of these dedicated drum corps enthusiasts have donated great amounts of time and money to keep DCA functional as best they can. I take personal offense to your claims that DCA has never done any marketing for the corps. Simply untrue. DCA, the organization, has always been Championship-centric. It is Labor Day Weekend that pays the bills. Each drum corps is solely responsible for its own operating revenue. Historically, DCA Member corps benefited directly from Championship profit sharing. That includes Championship ticket sales, Yearbook sales, Event Sponsorships and advertising, etc. These days, the Championship revenue is not at all what it had been in the past. The problems facing DCA now are really NOT of the organizing group’s making. The present team is doing the best with what it has to work with. You might have noticed, America is in some decline presently. Political decisions are creating conditions that make putting a drum corps on the field, and feeding a family back home, under a real strain. Discretionary spending, like travel, entertainment, membership dues, etc. are being cut back. When a young adult is forced to pay $5-7 per gallon gas, 35% more for food, 20% more for rent and utilities, 15% more for school, more for cell phones, etc., some will maybe decide not to do drum corps right now. Yes, DCA is suffering now and will have less participants. I am hopeful it will get through this period. But, really, what can DCA specifically do to reverse the stress being placed on each individual corps? On each individual member? On a prospective sponsor of a competition event? The money just isn’t there.

Keep in mind, the price of fuel influences the cost of most everything we do. The increased cost to move ALL products and services is passed down to the consumer until the final link in the ‘chain’ is reached. The affordability of our beloved activity is being hammered from every direction. As we confront this, supporting people and elements DO drop out. Rough times ahead. Thank goodness for Flo Marching Arts (such as it is).

I was privileged to spend a good amount of time with both Harold and Charlotte when the Crossmen were a Pennsylvania operation. For drum corps, both were “all in,” to say the least. Good people who earned our fond remembrance. Condolences to the entire family.

When discussing how DCI was formed, how DCI took on a growing national presence so rapidly, one name rises to the top. That name is Donald Whiteley. The late Don Whiteley came to DCI with a wealth of marketing and promotional talent at the highest levels of television and news production. He brought an impressive list of accomplished media types throughout the nation into play while expanding the fledgling DCI organization. Top media professionals in several major markets. Don had a unique ability to pick-up the phone and make things happen. He worked many, many hours per day. So many key things happened behind the scenes to put together the national tour. Few can understand this and the number who remember specifics decreases as we lose those early participants. It was my privilege to work closely with Don on our Allentown efforts during those early DCI years. We communicated and traveled together often. Don was a great mentor and friend. My wife and I still think fondly of Don and miss him greatly.

I don’t personally know the man, but have read about him. It seems as a child, he was always the one who strove to do what others said he couldn’t do. His main interest in life was aviation. This does appear to primarily be a philanthropic effort by someone who amassed a huge fortune through his start-up company. From an earlier interview with TV69 - The mission is called “Inspiration4.” He's using it to fundraise and donate a staggering $200 million to St. Jude Children's Hospital, $100 million of which will come from his own money. "You can't make all the great strides up in space, and try to explore new worlds, without trying to conquer some of the real problems we have here on Earth today," Isaacman said. He won't say how much he's paying for the mission. However, another recently reported private mission is costing $55 million a head. One of the seats is already going to a nurse from the hospital, who is still unknown. "She's a childhood cancer survivor, was treated and cured at St. Jude and is now a health care worker at St. Jude helping kids in the fight," Isaacman said. The third seat will be raffled off to a business that uses Shift4 Payments. The last one will be raffled off to anyone who makes a donation to St. Jude's in February. "Very few people have been fortunate enough to go to space and so we've got to make it accessible and let people go and explore among the stars," Isaacman said. —— I find the whole story just fascinating, inspiring. You know, rich people do good things, too!

Last night’s SpaceX launch makes the Allentown community very proud. Now in orbit, this is the World’s First All-Civilian Spaceflight. Onboard Commander, Jared Isaacman is Owner of the Shift4Payments Company, based in Allentown. The young billionaire, Isaacman, who lives nearby is totally funding the project on his own. He is joined in space right now by three other crew members, all civilian. On the ground working on the historic flight is former Allentown TV69 Engineer, George Motter, who is now the Senior Manager for Ground Segment and Launch Communications for SpaceX. Long ago, the Allentown DCI team received technical assistance from Mr. Motter, a Lehigh University grad. As a Lehigh Valley resident, I am excited to post of this endeavor. Just think of the courage shown by the Isaacman Team! Important to note, Mr. Isaacman, is using this mission to support St. Jude Children’s Hospital. Beyond entirely funding the flight, Isaacman has also pledged his own $100 million donation to St.Jude Children’s Hospital. Best wishes to all involved!

Good to hear from someone (deftguy) who has real experience in live event sound. Still not sure what to make of Flo’s spotty performance. I do know, as passionate drum corps fans, we almost expect perfection in everything related. We won’t always get it, but we seem to demand it! As a huge college football fan, I used Flo yesterday and this morning to look in on a wide variety of games from yesterday. This year, Flo distributes the feed from mostly Mid-Major teams. The production quality is all over the place there, too! I’m thinking Flo is not really a ‘production’ company. What Flo is selling is access to a distribution system. In other words, they’ll take whatever you give them and send it out, regardless of talent required. If the home team’s A/V Department/Sports Network has the right people and placement in positions for what the school does on a regular basis throughout the week, viewers using Flo to watch the event will not be disappointed. The people and equipment are far more dependable. It seems, Flo can set-up a standard set of cameras, mics, etc., and switch it ‘ON.’ The ‘ON’ is what you pay for. All the rest is up to the customer. So, unless there are a few improvements/assistance provided by DCI and its corps. this will always ‘be what it is’ currently. Again, the yearly Flo All-Access (many diverse sports and activities) DOES send out some good looking, good sounding product.

From a marketing standpoint, tour partners along the nightly travel routes NEED to keep their audiences satisfied, feeling better after they leave the venue. Like it, or not, spontaneous applause, cheers, and engagement with the presentations helps to build repeat customers. Families of the host corps’ members will want to attend automatically and certainly will respond loudly when they take the field. Others in the paying audience need to be “captured,” so to speak. Here, posters frequently write, “ I’ll have to see it a few times, I guess. Maybe then, I’ll get it.” Most in the local audience do not have that luxury. It’s a ‘one night only’ experience for them. Finding that ‘mix’ of challenging materials for the talented performers, and entertainment for the masses has always been a challenge in itself, but both groups need to be considered.

Seems to me, appeal to ‘General Audiences’ remains important. Many of the attendees at local stops along the tour are ‘first timers’ we hope decide to come back again next year. People we want to encourage their neighbors to join them for a good night out, bring the kids, etc. People go to football stadiums expecting to cheer. This time, for music. If presentations are too sophisticated, too confusing, and provide little to evoke frequent and spontaneous cheering by onlookers who are ‘not refined enough to get it, ‘ performers are missing out. Polite applause only goes so far. Our hard-working young people deserve much more emotional appreciation from their audiences.

Good discussion! After more than 50 years attending drum corps events, I observe less AUDIENCE ENGAGEMENT in today’s programming. By engagement, I refer to earlier shows that had cheering and standing ovations several times throughout each corps performance. From everyone, not just parents and family members. Much of it, spontaneous and predictable. To me, certain elements of a ‘show’ seemed to reliably cause joy and standing O’s. One, still does, the long company front driving toward the front sideline. Another, is straight line, horizontal movement done perfectly. Everyone KNOWS what ‘straight’ means, and they look for it, naturally. In their mind, they are playing along, evaluating and looking for success. I’d like to see a little more of these mixed in. Of course, loud brass chords never miss getting a rise out of people. But, NOT from electronics! Too fake. MOST OF ALL . . . melody that lasts more than just 15 seconds. Give the crowd time to be pleased with the flow, not annoyed by chopped salad noises. How many in the audience can relate to that?

Yes, cixelsyd. Posting here ain’t what it used to be! Your reply is EXCELLENT. Many thanks for a well-worded, substantive response. Not enough of these. Generally, no matter what someone offers up will be too easily dismissed. You, cixelsyd, have accurately explained what’s at work here, unfortunately. I do agree with your interpretation. One aspect of unlimited use of A&E is, the first 10 audience rows can become less appealing because of electronic abuses. When I did attend often, I very much wanted to sit down low for an unadulterated experience.

An idea I had in mind involved just a couple of DCI-owned audio set-ups. A reasonable level of cost for the complete package, yet very capable of capturing and transmitting this kind of event to the audience. Have no idea what a single package cost would be, but thinking $20,000 is sufficient. In other words, “THIS is the system that will be in place at the show site.” Understand its abilities and limitations in designing your presentations. THIS system is what you will connect to when you arrive to perform. Some of you will be willing and able to purchase/lease the same set-up for your exclusive use at home and on the road. Your choice. But, this is what your staff will work with at the venue. Something needs to be done in terms of standardization, I believe. It is not reasonable to expect Flo, or any other firm, to reliably work with our product unless we start removing the many variables currently in place.

Such as it is, I am pleased to receive programing from Flo Marching Arts channel. At this point of life, drum corps directly to my living room is best. You probably noticed, with advancing age comes a decrease in tolerance for things! For now, I do remain patient with audio from Flo broadcasts. Why? Because Flo technical teams are being asked to produce a standardized, excellent quality aural representation of a ‘moving target’ that widely varies in speed, strength, and capability. Sometimes indoor, often outside. High end pro stuff, or Mattel? Difficult challenge, no doubt. In addition, I suspect Flo technicians are largely inexperienced, underpaid, and as I have witnessed, not placed in position and set before a couple hours before showtime. Our DCI corps need to consider standardizing more of the processes leading to a finished product, I think. A product more reliable to the task faced by Flo. I’m not a musician, nor a sound engineer. But ask the following questions. Would there be benefit to one, designated by DCI, standardized electronic set-up? Same size, quality, and brand components? The ‘Official Sound Equipment provider for DCI,’ so to speak. One, decibel-limited standard for all. Same size speaker arrays, mics, and sound boards? Same (as much as practical) everything related to electronic reproduction? Put another way, neutralize the challenge Flo technicians face wherever they set-up, whatever group is presenting? Thoughts?

Reliable sources report more than 5000 tickets were sold in advance. That’s more than I had expected.

I agree. However, when “thought police” become a deterrent, why bother to post? Not worth the effort.

I hope we haven’t reached a point where participants here are afraid to stand firmly behind their personal observations and assessments. We are not able to satisfy the sensitivities of every anonymous reader. That’s on them. I make no apologies for my views on this timely consideration. Nor should you.

Jeff - this discussion has been revealing in several ways. I’ve decided to move along.

Fine with me, MikeN ! Are you able to further explain what disturbs you about such an opinion? I know If I was a corps Board Member, I would expect someone from my paid staff to attend and remain directly involved with other associates.

As I was unable to clearly describe how small an effort it would take for an organization not doing the mini-tour leading up to Indy, I’ll finish with these thoughts. An important component of the Final DCI Weekend is a series of live, public performances throughout the host city. This goes beyond just what happens that Saturday night. It would take relatively little investment of time, effort, and expense for any group to gather and present during a single (15 minute) slot on one daily schedule. For example, a 15-20 person brass ensemble using active members and alumni, some who already plan to be in Indy at their own expense. Music stands, a couple of Zoom practices beforehand, loaned brass, a trap set, commemorative T-Shirts, etc., etc. Play 6-7 numbers identified with that group. Indoors, outdoors, a street performance, a sponsor exhibit, a local Happy Hour, etc. Doesn’t really matter, just be a part of the performance contribution. This highly unusual, challenging 2021 Season will long be remembered. There will be printed and digital records held for reference. Oh, well. It’s an option to place on the table. Done! Best wishes to all !

cixelsyd - Certainly, no corps is required to do anything. I don’t believe that’s been the intent for DCI 2021. I describe what what would make the gathering better. There is no expectation of 100% agreement, just hope.

Yes, I should clarify. I can’t imagine any corps who intends to participate in 2022, deciding not to have persons in Indy to represent their organization. That would not only be a foolish waste of networking opportunity, education, and planning participation, but also (in my view) arrogant and reprehensible. The question is, could/should the corps also be represented in some small way by a modified (live) public performance? My answer . . . absolutely!

Thanks to all who commented. It’s obvious, not everyone sees the same value in (even this type) DCI Final Weekend. Such an event in Indianapolis, or any other city, will be the largest gathering of DCI enthusiasts of 2021. Converging at the DCI Final Weekend will be several diverse components, including spectators, corps staff and instructors, equipment manufacturers, corporate sponsors, local officials and news media. Everything will be fully documented, some with media product to hold. One way or another, every corps planning to participate in 2022 will be represented. It would be foolish to not take advantage of the unique opportunities such a gathering affords. Formal, public corps performances during various time slots over three days will tie everything together. Even if greatly reduced and modified, these short appearances are important, if only as symbolic. My perspective here is as former drum corps promoter and marketing manager. This Indy Weekend, such as it will be, retains great value for DCI’s future. I want each participant to recognize this. To “lend a hand” in making it all work as best it can under such challenging circumstances. A public performance by an ensemble pieced-together to represent your corps in Indy will help greatly in this effort. That’s not too much to ask. Again, your consideration of these opinions is appreciated.

We hear this word often these days. Should it apply here, too? The upcoming “Bridge Season” serves to help maintain the role of Drum Corps international (the corporation) as drum corps’ biggest, most competent, event provider. Under normal circumstances, DCI has demonstrated its ability to stage an entire year of related events, including a full Summer Tour schedule. Now, DCI looks to keep that “engine” idling until 2022 when operational conditions are expected to be improved. Understandably, each regularly participating corps is given latitude during 2021 in determining what operational level it can handle at this time. Many groups (about 20) are planning to “do the bridge” over a few week period. Others have chosen to do something else, or provide a different alternative to their students. In my opinion . . . EVERY corps that regularly participates under the DCI banner should support the corporation’s effort by presenting a performance in Indianapolis this summer. A student performance of some sort. This could be in the form of a small ensemble in standstill, a contingent to appear in Drum Line Battle, an Alumni performance group, etc., etc. Spend most of 2021 however you like, but perform in Indianapolis in some manner, if only for one day. There is a way for everyone to be represented with a performance in Indianapolis. It’s the RIGHT thing to do, too ! Agree?