prodigal bari

And do not forget the Black B*****s!

Bottom line; it is COMPETITION; first and foremost. And the rules and diciplines of the activity have changed; so the demands of the writing and design have changed along with it. And it remains to be seen whether what is happening with a realtively young activity (in artistic terms..) will stand the test of time and be remembered 2-300 years from now. Let's not get too serious with it here. Just enjoy what the kids have done. Relax...have a drink... :mmm: Gotta get back to work now.... <**>

A conductor of a symphony I used to play in (and respected colleague) used to say that you do not have to like the music in order for it to be music. I think we sometimes equate our own tastes to universal judgement. Well put, rut-roh. ^OO^

I figured as much...although the irony of it all did not escape me :) Especially after all the battles on this board about amps :)

Cavies have just hit the undefinable barrier that the multiple champions reach to activate the 'hate squads' (i.e.; the Yowzas and the Doors). Guess we had better get ready to hear about manually-operated block forms and metal guard uniforms for the next several months b**bs Of course, this also means that Cavies have reached a new level of legend as well! :)

As an aside to the cat-fight going on here.... Did anyone notice the faux-microphones the guard was wearing???? OR...WERE THEY FAUX........ :sshh: (Disclaimer...My one chance to view Cavies was monsooned out in TN. Boohoohoo....)

...Which would be flammable..and DANGEROUS in stadium heat. :sshh: And would be a great GE idea...only thing is, you can only do it once! ^0^

Look at the number of Siggaminnion...or whatever the name of this troll...posts are. He is new. He is also an i...t. Or someone with an axe to grind. And to the Mad City Alumni... Just getting in b4 the close...

Also, in 1980 Troopers were actually 13th before a 1.3 penalty (either flag drops or late to the line) put them behind Blue Star. And THAT situation would be a topic in itself.... :sshh:

And nobody even mentions the two finals in Birmingham in 79 and 80. In PRELIMS the crowd was jammed pack to the 1st quarter of the end zone pies on each end; and the one upper deck concert side packed as well. Finals was even more jammed; and I heard crowd numbers in the very high 30's/low 40's; and that would be accurate for the stadium size. (I was a spectator in 79 and a member in 80.) I know the stadia DCI has available these days are not near as huge as the Legion Field concert side, but could DCI actually fill a similar stadium now? I have my doubts...

Usually when you see this many people jumping off the ship, there may be something drastically wrong on the ship. Is there something coming down that does not have ANYTHING to do with program direction (i.e.; finances)??? Gosh, I hope not... :(

THAT WAS 30 YEARS AGO; FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!! The tours are different, and so are the prices, shows, demands, and expectations!!! (ooohhh, that felt good! ^0^ )

You have OBVIOUSLY not been working around students; or know the type of schedules these corps are running these days. My statements stand. And your reply concerning the kitchens is nonsensical. Also remember these corps still have some under-18 people in them. Corps are still required to stand in place of parents on tour, whether you like it or not. And, tell me this: Why do you think ALL the top-12 corps feel it is mandatory to have cook trucks (even Madison..)? There must be a reason....

I agree with your statements...however, there are a couple of caveats. 1. Jr. Corps (along with some Sr. corps) use minors. When that occurs there is added lawful responsibility placed on the instructors and responsible adults in charge of the operation. If something happens (like a minor getting heat stroke) even if that minor did not follow proceedures the adults are still liable if they did not monitor behavior. That is just a legal fact, unfortunately. 2. In order to protect the activity in this ligatious day and time you have to be proactive...and that means background checks, financial checks and balances (and in my experience, great musician/instructors have not always been the best at administration and financial areas), and accountability for operations. If we as an activity continue to overlook problems then we invite a third-party to force themselves into the operations; and then DC as a whole is threatened. 3. There needs to be a way for DCI to disassociate from unscruptilous people who have grossly mismanaged corps, endangered members, and to check to be certain that corps screen their staffs (just like in the schools..and unfortunately, there are predators in this activity <**> )to protect all participants, and the activity. You cannot take things for granted any longer, not in this day and time. And it is a crying shame :(

Wrong on all counts. I marched in 1980; and I have involved with marching activities since then as both writing and instructing...and MY knowledge of the activity goes against your assertions, with all due respect. And do not assume that kids, on their own, will use good judgement in meals. And at the junior corps level, the staff is in loco parentis...even with the college-age marchers. And frankly, I have seen consistently (and shockingly) good meals produced in the 'cook trucks' as you call them...they are actually mobile kitchens with food-service quality stoves, ovens, and freezers. The meals I have taken in as a visitor and host of a corps have been more than just acceptable; they have been dad-gum outstanding! Of course, this begs to ask: If a corps at the D1 level cannot provide for a full tour at the level of protection called for, then what business does it have going on tour to start with? I know that is draconian (and fuel costs do impact negatively on this), but this is the bottom line. And remember, Madison has always been the exception....and that is why they are admired!! (And I have STILL seen big guys in that corp during the 70's-80's! Just not too many....)

1. Good corps understand the need to feel their members well. The physical demands placed on the participants (150-200 sets vs. 30; at break-neck speeds and astronomical demand) have increased by factors since the 70's, to the point that they are world-class athletes (remember the IU study that placed the cardivascular activity of a corps member at the level of a world-class runner..do you see any huge kids in the top 12?); and therefore need to be fed very well; and come of the modern corps can put out one heck of a meal. 2. Time is of the essence. It is quicker to feed the corps at the rehearsal/performance site than going to the local strip mall. 3. Food is a lot more expensive at fast-food places; and there is no way to make sure the members are eating healthy and enough to fuel themselves for a 4-5 hr rehearsal block. You are also at the mercy of location...some places you have to go may not have the infrastructure to actually feed properly 150+ athletes and staff. You could get by in the past (and some didnt...see some of the older horror stories on other posts) with leaving the kids on their own; not now and be competitive...or even safe. Drum corps is as much an athletic activity as it is musical; and to not provide proper nutrition while physically pushing them past their limits in dangerous heat conditions (as many corps HAVE to do) is bordering on criminal. And dont even think about being competitive anymore...

If you have ever been in a classroom with a professor who was extremely outspoken about certain things (politics, for example) you risked your grade or reference by disagreeing with them. Kids that age as a whole do not have expereience to combat this. The webmaster may have been trying to go thru channels (DCI) to get things done; and they did not to the degree that they needed to be. Also, he may have felt pressure to get his pay first...and that is understandable, since there was building up evidence of the lack of integrity of the leadership of the corps. Many of these members and staff are young; and they are inexperienced with dealing with strong personalities who can intimidate and threaten (not to mention their invested hope in the organization and its success restrains them)...therefore, there has to be strong oversight by responsible adults with the power to call the shot if it needs to be. Shot one was bringing the Troopers director in to finish the tour. Also understand that peer pressure could have kept things in-house ('what goes on here, stays here'...which is manipulation at its finest <**> ); and the usual atmosphere of touring tends to have a hard focus on the show to the extreme; and sometimes reality is put aside. (Ask any member how hard it can be to readjust after a season..it was hard for me!) Add to that the fact that some members may not realize at times they are being mistreated and put into danger, and the difficulties for parents to see everything that goes on 1000 miles away with the touring corps, and it is a recipe for abuse, neglect, and endangerment to occur. Remember, in most abuse situations the abused does not always speak up out of fear. Because you are 18-21 years old does not mean you are up on adult perspectives...and it is up to the more experienced of us to observe, question, demand, and if need be, change these situations before someone further gets hurt or dies. And make examples out of those individuals who caused these situations and start screening others to avoid mismanagement and abuse. And maybe this is a wake-up call to this activity to get its house in order before it is forced upon it. And that would be very bad :(

Sounds like someone is trying to spout the company line. <**> Or maybe...just maybe...they were part of the problem...and dont like it coming out in the open...hmmmm.... Just look at their post numbers (5..all in this forum....) Suspicious, say I.

You have been worshipping too many clean-cut ladies, my friend....

from Bawker QUOTE Dateline: Madison, WI Starting August 23rd, 2006, Paris Hilton will be taking over the reigns of the Madison Drum and Bugle Corps Association, Inc. Her first act will be to incoporate dancing Pomeranians into the 2007 Scouts production, along with petitioning the DCI Board of Directors to change the field color from "the icky green" to "yummy pink". Ms. Hilton will be dropping the intrinsic Boy Scout heritage of the unit, and replacing it with a "thug/homeboy" theme, renaming the corps the Madison Louts. The uniform will now be a sideways Von Dutch hat, baggy shorts, and a wife-beater undershirt (night vision camera optional). The new MDBCA Board will include Nicole Richie, Lindsay Lohan, Tara Reid...and any other drunk patry-girl starlets Ms. Hilton can fish out of the bars at 4am to drool over the sexiest "bois" to make the cut into Louts 2007. The 2007 show will feature Ms. Hilton as the featured vocalist performing hits from her new album, "Paris".(end quote) I know what will be used a part of the percussion festure....The new board, paddles, and amplification. ^0^ Will they call this "An American in Paris" show??? ^0^ (I guess I had better get my asbestos suit ready....)

The question is not a solution; it is the legality. DOT would care less about the solution....but some of the problems stem from the lack of understanding by corps administration of the legalities, the regs, and the changing environment of commercial driving (even for non-profits). However, this is my idea...and understand that commercials drivers are in short supply in the industry in general... Corps need to set aside a portion of their ops budget for training and care of proprietary drivers and/or have their own seperate ops (much like some corps already do)that have full-time drivers hired for charter in the off-season, and use that resource for the summer tours. (It is a good revenue stream, supplies drivers, and allows for usage of top-flight equipment that can pay for themselves off-season.) Treat them well, design tours that do not have them driving more than 10 hrs a shift to make a show (DCI, are you listening?), and insist that they follow DOT rules. (Apparently CR's problem stemmed from management who had trouble getting qualified people who would put up with the BS they faced. And THAT forced them to hire hacks to drive. And had I been driving with CR and saw these problems discussed in the threads I would have reported the problems directly to DOT, as I did one time to a former employer, to stop it in its tracks. That is required by law.) Time to face it, national touring is becoming increasingly difficult each year; and I have to wonder how much longer it can continue in its present form. :(

THAT IS A COP-OUT, to a certain degree. Whether you can drive or not has nothing to do with a corps not having their ducks in a row (concerning safety among other issues). And I am already looking at doing some volunteer work next year when I can; and I think I know where. But despite the PC pressure to do to say; parents and adults have the RESPONSIBILITY and LEGAL OBLIGATION to complain and report behaviors such as discussed on this thread. All we need is headlines of corps members being killed in a bus accident by a out-of compliance driver for the activity to come to a screeching halt. Much more so for the gut-wrenching tragedy that it would be.

I am wondering this as well. I hope DCI has a handle on this, because all that a state DOT would have to do is to know that there is a show in the area; and set up an enforcement sting to pull over every corps vehicle that comes out of a show. I have seen this in other states...and if I was not in compliance, I would be concerned. They arrest unlicensed and major out-of-compliance drivers. And could conceivably lodge charges against both corps and possibly DCI. If this is not addressed at this time, DCI had better, quickly.

Not anything like blackmail, IMHO. You have a responsibility BY LAW in most states to report youth endangerment to the authorities. And yes, DOT CAN prosecute on purely criminal charges of knowingly allowing unsafe and unqualified operations of commercial vehicles...due to the lethal danger they can be. I know...I have been at one time a commercial driver for several years. Following legal recourse is not blackmail; and in this case it is also CYA. And quite frankly, with youth endangered, I would have reported it myself if I had observed it. Thus endeth the lesson...

Apparently on the CR website Fred was held in very high regard. It is not specific to exactly how he got involved, though. But is sure looks like the Troop got themselves a winner!!