BOBSMYTH

To continue that thought: Santa Clara Vanguard has never finished lower than 8th place in any DCI World Finals 1972 - present. Along the same lines - Blue Devils has been a finalist 1974 - present and has never finished lower than 5th place 1975 - present.

Sometimes - Sound is in the ear of the beholder. Getting everything set up and adjusted to the optimal mix is more art than science. And even then - put 10 sound professionals in a room and you will get at least 13 opinions on what optimal is.

This is correct - theater attendance is reported separately. For the 2010 numbers, I remember that Thursday night in the movie theaters was reported at over 38,000 - just in the theaters. Add in the people in the stands in Indy and you are looking at the single largest drum corps audience for one event in the DCI era - around 45,000. (Certainly larger than the 35,947 flashed on the screen in Montreal in 1981 - if one felt the need to make a comparison.) I expect that the 2011 theater numbers will be even higher.

Didn't say this one item accounted for 15,000 people. There are a lot of reasons why sales are down. I am not trying to somehow explain it all away. I couldn't. In fact, having more participating corps back then did lead to more overall ticket sales because more participants leads to more participants friends and families buying tickets. Having more participants in 2011 would have the same effect. Didn't say that people were sneaking in. All the corps were required to buy tickets for their kids back then. For the reported numbers, it didn't matter if the kids ever entered the building. A ticket sold was counted as a ticket sold. To summarize my main point: DCI reported numbers differently back in the day. One difference is how corps kids are accounted for. They were counted in ticket sold numbers in 1981 & 1982 for example. DCI doesn't count them in ticket sold numbers in 2011. We don't know the extent of the differences in reporting methodology - but it sure makes the numbers difficult to compare.

My simple calculations: Finals revenue is very roughly $1,000,000 these days. That is based on reported ticket sales numbers and ticket prices that range from $35 to $125 per Ticketmaster's seating chart. DCI's total annual revenue is just about $10,000,000 every year in recent history. This data comes from their annual 990 reports. That means Finals revenue comes to about 10% of DCI's business and 90% must come from all other sources. I am trying to understand which part is wrong. What am I missing?

The Blue Stars were included in the 2010 Tour of Champions events because they had finished in the top 8 for the three prior years - 2008, 2009 and 2010. Not just 2010. So, just because Boston finished in the top 8 in 2011 does not mean that they will be included in any TOC events for 2012. I think it does mean that Blue Stars are out for 2012. We may have TOC shows with just 7 corps. Stay tuned.

Not a conspiracy. Just a different way of counting and reporting the numbers back in the day. Little known fact - back in the 70's and into the 80's (not exactly sure when the practice changed), DCI sold tickets to the corps based on the number of marching members in each corps. The tickets were a special lower price and were the mechanism to get the corps into the stadium when they weren't performing. Some corps directors handed these out to individual members. Some corps directors held on to them and had the corps enter the stadium en masse. Those tickets were counted and reported as part of the Paid Attendance numbers. After all, they were tickets that had been sold. Again, not accusing anyone of conspiring to pad the numbers. Maybe they just never thought of wristbands back then. 1981 and 1982 in Montreal had the highest number of corps attending the DCI championships (over 90 each year) AND some of the highest reported paid attendance numbers. I don't think that is a concidence. These days all of those marching members get into the stadium using wristbands and are not counted as part of the "tickets sold" numbers. Just one of many reasons why it is difficult to do an apples to apples comparison between different eras.

I repectfully disagree - but perhaps that is also irrelevent to you. Do you know how many DCP readers you just sent over to Google (or Wikipedia)?

I said it was important - just not all important. I would estimate that ticket sales for Finals is about +/- 10% of DCI's total annual revenue. Important - but still leaving 90% of revenue coming from other sources.

Actually - you don't got it. Not sure how I've offended you but - I love the past. I own DCI's Legeacy Series DVD's. I have records older than DCI. I occasionally read and post in the DCP Historical section. But this isn't about me. The best news in a long time - that DCI Finals attendance is up in 2011 over 2010 - is being buried in this thread with several posts about how 2011 attendance cannot be seen as good news because it doesn't compare to "X" from year "19xx". I will continue to contend that any increase in Finals attendance is a very good thing. That's all I'm saying.

Sorry you were unable to understand the point I was making. Let me try to re-state it with more detail. Lots and lots and lots of things in this world have changed over time. These things are so different today compared to other eras that it makes any comparisons between things of those bygone eras and things of today interesting at best - but mostly irrelevent. Is the business side of DCI acheiving success in 2011? Maybe, maybe not. The best way to determine the answer to that question - what did DCI plan to do in 2011 and how well are they executing that plan? Nothing from the 1971 Cotton Bowl tells me much useful information about what is going on in 2011. Nothing from any VFW event tells me anything meaningful about how many people watched DCI drum corps in theaters or followed drum corps all season on the Fan Network. No numbers from 1981 Montreal help me understand 2011 ticket sales in the context of $4 gas. The environment that DCI operates in today is very different than in prior years - different numbers of corps, different numbers of participants, differences in average age of marchers, differences in economic realities of the ticket buying public, differences in entertainment and activity options, differences in geographic distribtion of corps, differences in audience expectations, differences in technology (synthesizers anyone?), differences in the structure of the tour (maybe there is no need to go to Finals in Indy if I live in metro Atlanta), differences in the design of drum corps shows, etc, etc. If I want to form an opinion on DCI management's effectiveness in 2011, I want to compare 2011 budget expecatations versus 2011 actual results. I want to know about more than just Saturday night in Lucas Oil. I want to know about Allentown. I want to know about Atlanta. I want to know about Drums along the Rockies. I want to know about how many tee shirts were sold this summer. I want to know about sponsors and how many people went to DCI at the Movies in June. That kind of data would provide a meaningful analysis of 2011. I want to know if the parade is coming back next year and how well the Open Class corps liked the new Thursday Prelims format. I want to know what the plans are to continue the fan friendly emphasis of this year's shows. I want to know about the plans for 2012. In summary, I want to talk about this year and next. That is the meaningful discussion, IMHO.

15 is better than 50, no doubt. In your business - don't they most often compare your results to last month, last quarter or last year (or perhaps this year's quota or budget)? How often do they go back further than a year when they make a comparison?

DCI is a business that operates 365 days a year. The relative results of one night in August - while important - does not begin to give us any kind of meaningful glimpse into the "state of the union" of the business as a whole. It continues to amaze me how many people go back 20 to 50 YEARS to make comparisons of these data points. The results for any VFW show from the 60's or Montreal in the early 80's is completely irrelevant to the results from 2011 in the environment that DCI operates in today. The conclusions drawn about the effectiveness of DCI as an organization - or drum corps as an activity - when making these selective memory types of comparisons defies logic. "Yup. IBM must really suck. Do you know how many millions of Selectric typewriters they sold back in the 70's? And their mainframe computer business hasn't been the same since the 60's. I'm amazed they are still around. They sure managed those businesses into the ground."

The Thursday show is one of the best values in drum corps. A ticket for the best seat is $55 to see it all live. Even adding in the ticketmaster fees on top of that- it is only about $1.50 per corps. That is a huge bargain, IMHO.

There is an award for Drum Majors. It is called the Jim Jones Leadership award. Named after the Troopers long time director and one of the founding fathers of Drum Corps International. It is administered by a committee made up of DCI Hall of Fame members. These guys take their job seriously. Not only do they observe the DM's on the field in front of the corps, they also observe them in other settings. There is also a formal interview as part of the selection process. They consider all DM's in both the World Class and the Open Class. For the past several years, they have picked at least one from each class. Many DM's are outstanding individuals. Picking one as the best of the best has got to be a tough job.

A lot of hairnets worn throughout the late 60's and early 70's. Especially when it was an Inspection show.

If you're gonna bring a 6 year old thread back to life, well all I can say is... Good choice.

As long as we're bringing back the "trooping the stands" concept, let's try this one: Perhaps the "Instant Encores" (aka the extra material designed to really entertain the crowd) could be tagged on to the end of each corps performance - with no break in between. No need to set anything back up - just march from your end set to the next set needed for the encore. Heck, the corps could choose what happens next - either move into an arc "concert" like formation or if they want, they could continue to move and show off their marching visual skills. This way, the guard could do some extra work and impress the audience even more. A rule could be passed so that the corps would not have to worry about being judged during this section of the show - there would be no reason for them to hold anything back. Just to make sure that everyone knows when the judged section ends and the "encore" section begins, we would need a loud sound that could be heard by everyone in the stadium - perhaps something like a starters pistol - that could be shot off at just the right moment. All of these changes would certainly keep the show moving AND the audience entertained. We could even award extra points for the corps with the most entertaining of the entertaining sections (maybe add some "build-up" points tagged on to their score as extra GE). Think about it for a minute or two - it just might work.

I can't tell if you are serious or sarcastic. So before this thread goes off on a tangent - there is no cause & effect relationship between the madness of last spring (known as the G7 proposal) and the artistic, entertainment and programming choices that are on the field today. Let's give credit where credit is really due. Michael Cesario was appointed to be the new Artistic Director of DCI. He is the point person - but not the only person - working on a series of initiatives that most of us will never see - except to witness the results on the field. The genesis of this change in direction and emphasis began long before the G7 proposal was a gleem in somebody's eye.

This is the list of Open Class corps that have signed up to be at the Open Class Prelims on Monday in Michigan City. Open Class Finals is on Tuesday - also in Michigan City. 7th Regiment - New London, CT Blue Devils B - Concord, CA Blue Saints - Sudbury, ON Colt Cadets - Dubuque, IA Forte - Grand Prairie, TX Genesis - Edinburg, TX Jubal - Dordrecht, The Netherlands Legends - Kalamazoo, MI Les Stentors - Sherbrooke, QU Music City - Nashville, TN Oregon Crusaders - Portland, OR Racine Scouts - Racine, WI Raiders - Wayne, NJ Revolution - San Antonio, TX Spartans - Nashua, NH Vanguard Cadets - Santa Clara, CA The Yokohama Scouts - Yokohama, Japan Spirit of Newark/NJ - Newark, NJ Open Class I&E is scheduled for Wednesday - in Indianapolis. It would make sense that most - probably all - of these Open Class Corps will appear in the World Class Prelims on Thursday in Indy.

I agree. In the big picture - to both the general public and to the large sponsors - marching band is a niche activity. Drum corps is a niche of that niche. There is just not enough critical mass within our activity to be attractive to non-industry related sponsors of a large scale over long periods of time. It makes little business sense for them to throw large amounts of money at extremely small niche activities - no matter how passionate the participants in that activity may be about their interests. The rest of the world just does not care. And so the sponsors do not care.

That didn't take long - the first official Pro-Slotting thread of the 2011 competitive season. Guess the topic of West Coast Inflation wasn't available this year.

Not much information in these very broad budget categories. Trying to understand the numbers. First question that jumps out - can someone explain the difference between "vehicles" and "transportation"? Isn't that the same thing?

The two shows in Texas that kick off the season on the first weekend are NOT G8/TOC shows. The first TOC show is in Rockford, IL in mid-July. How these 2 Texas shows are normal drum corps shows: There is no "extra content". They are run by DCI. The money goes to DCI - to support programs for all the corps, not just 7 or 8. They will have normal judging panels using DCI's standard judging system. They are "just drum corps shows" with killer line-ups. How they differ from normal drum corps shows: A text voting component has been added to gauge audience reaction. (But it neither replaces or augments the judges scores.) The shows are being recorded and one of them is being broadcast to the rest of the country in movie theaters on Monday night. The judges scores from Saturday and Sunday are being held until Monday night. This is the first time that I can remember when all of the most competitively successful units from prior years go head to head at the start of the season. Why I would buy a ticket if I was within driving distance of these Texas events: All these corps are head to head using the same judges - 2 different panels for the two nights. No "West Coast inflation". Can anyone #2 - #8 knock off last year's #1 right out of the gate and set the tone for the 2011 season? What will #2 - #8 do to try to make that happen? Be more prepared than they've ever been? Cleaner? More "entertaining"? Will #1 be extra prepared to make sure that doesn't happen? I don't think I can make it to Texas but I know I will be in a movie theater. This could be good.

IMHO - I think we're trying to overthink this. It's a name - a name for a couple of shows featuring some of the best drum corps in existence today (competitively). It's a name that can be used to help market the events to try to sell a few more tickets. "Tour of Champions" does have an easy to understand, appealing ring to it that might do the trick. Some additional random thoughts - There are many other activities that use the phrase "Tour of Champions" or something similar: golf, tennis, bowling, gymnastics, barrel racing - to name a few. Do they insist that every participant in every one of those events be a Champion in order to participate? Would you know? Would you care? Why? Each of the eight corps has won drum corps shows in the past. Not all of them have won the season ending DCI World Championships. But they have all won something. The phrase "Tour of Champions" doesn't specify champions of what. While we're picking at the word "Champions" - why no issues with the word "Tour"? How many shows does it take to constitute a tour? Is 5 enough? Shouldn't they be closer together in geography or timing? Why are there other "non-tour" shows in between? In the interest of accuracy, how about this for a name: "The grouping of five somewhat randomly timed and geographically diverse events that may possibly contain several complete 2011 competitive field shows along with additional content designed to be different than what is normally presented in your typical drum corps event performed by several current and former Drum Corps International World Champions and one champion of the now-defunct Drum Corps International Division III and a few other corps from a similar competitive ranking in 2010 all to be judged in a manner and using a system different than is used in any other 2011 Drum Corps International summer tour event (details to be determined and/or announed at a later date) including text voting" Just rolls off the tongue, don't you think? Did I miss any details?