wilme861

It does though. In the full document, under Judging Impact they say: "It is recommended that the MA judge at these shows be a percussionist or a judge with a percussion background." Personally I just wish they would bring back the second percussion judge instead but I'm fine with this if they don't do it.

Not exactly, they're recommending that the MA judge that is used has percussion experience so they don't lose this.

Great moves by Crown in percussion! Excited for next year

By far, the biggest change I heard over and over and over again was the fabric needs to go. But the fabric didn’t have a single role in members being out of sync or forms not being locked in or any of the other examples of issues crown had visually. Crown got cleaner yes but they just weren’t as close to as clean (visually anyways) as the 3 corps above them. Crown’s performance level was crazy especially on finals but it does you no good when you go “oh that must be a hole there…oh no it’s not, it’s filled now” They just got beat fair and square last year. I have no concern though for the design and instruction team moving forward as some others seem to have. Very interested to see who comes in for percussion though. I loved Travis and his team and hope they get a shot somewhere else.

For the overall score yeah you're right, but those are the spreads specifically for percussion. Only 2019 would have made any difference because Crown was so close to SCV for the bronze. The other years though, even 1st in percussion wouldn't have changed anything overall for Crown.

I’m sorry that non-percussionists don’t understand what we’re saying. Beating Johnson and/or Rennick is equivalent to beating Harloff in brass and Townsend in guard. Those are all at the top of the ladder when it comes to their specific captions (you can definitely throw more names in there but they’re the names coming to me right now). Just because you aren’t beating these guys every year doesn’t mean you are failing. I still believe this 2022 line was a better line that finished in 5th than the 2018 line that ended up 3rd. BTW…this is the first year that I can remember since I marched in the mid 2000s where I thought a Rennick or Johnson line wasn’t the best line in DCI. So yeah Crown and the rest of DCI, stop slacking and get better at percussion!

Completely agree! Percussion IMO is most definitely the most competitive caption and I don’t think it’s even close. I mean this year was just ridiculous for percussion. Who can honestly say that they were predicting Bluecoats to not just score highest on finals but also win the Sanford? Not only that but I know the score doesn’t reflect this but how many people considered Boston to have the best line this year? (Because I know a good amount that still think that still). And I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure that Boston staff didn’t really change much, if at all, from their 2019 year where they finished…7th in percussion! But that was a very very good line that fell down to 7th. I’m not worried about Crown when it comes to percussion. Travis and his team are very good and I don’t know any percussionists that have a negative opinion on that staff or the line (until I get on DCP it seems). The 2019 line was very good and ended up 4th behind absolutely filthy BD and SCV lines (both scoring above a 19.8 on finals from Prosperie which is just crazy) and a solid Bluecoats line. Then in 2018, they weren’t far behind SCV and BD and finished 3rd. The first year with the staff was 2017 where they finished 4th. So…where is the problem again? They aren’t beating Rennick and Johnson each year so they’re bad? If I remember right, in Broken Arrow, this Crown line was only 0.1 behind the eventual Sanford winners Bluecoats… if they didn’t have the struggle they did from there until Atlanta or so, I firmly believe they would have been a “tighter” line but still doubt the placement would have changed. On a real though, people keep wanting change so if you wanted to replace this Crown percussion staff, who would you be getting? All I’m going to say is good luck finding a better team…

Took me about 15 min max to get in around 5:30ish for finals. There was a LONG LONG LONG line on the north side of the stadium but if you just walked down towards the gates, you could see that whole line was for only 1 or 2 gates and not the other 4+ that were there. I think people just saw the line and got in it but just needed to go down and get in the other much shorter lines. Still a cluster f**k and a half though.

I'll admit some conversations or debates get exhausting but as long as it doesn't go personal, participate! Observe when you want but don't ever feel bad about participating even if you're the odd man out in the conversation. That's the whole point of a forum anyways. I know you don't have this issue but just throwing it out there anyways.

As I've said before, BOA judges (some of whom are known to judge DCI too) do this every year at most of the Super Regionals. Half the bands perform on Friday with the other half on Saturday followed by finals that night. It's not uncommon for one of the top few bands to perform relatively early on Friday with another close competitor performing later on Saturday and yet those judges do it. I'll agree that the format like San Antonio is much more ideal but I disagree when you say these judges can't do it. I mean Jay Webb literally judged Allentown this year and did BOA St Louis this past season. Both are 2 day events judging as a single competition so he seems to somehow pull off the impossible.

Was thinking the same thing. Haven't seen them since TX but in my group of fellow percussionist friends, we all have Boston and BD as having the best books of this year. Again, that was from TX though and in the lots and doesn't include the front either so kudos to the Bluecoats!

Quotes from the DCI site on the Allentown 2019 recap: "Since the Friday and Saturday DCI Eastern Classic pres. by Big, Loud & Live events in Allentown, Pennsylvania are considered to be one show in two parts with the same adjudication panel, the results from both days are considered as being from one event." "When combining the two nights’ scores, Carolina Crown passed up defending World Champion Santa Clara Vanguard..." "Carolina Crown (3rd place – 93.638 – Saturday) moved above Vanguard despite placing 6th from two of the four GE judges..." Think what you want though, I don't care anymore since quite a few have tried to explain this to you. And I'm not kidding when I say I literally don't care where Crown comes in the scoring. Would I love them to win another Championship? Of course, I'm a proud alum and will always hope for that. But if you think I truly care if they come 2nd or 8th, then you really don't know me one bit.

BOA Super Regionals are done this exact way. Bands are spread out over 2 days with the same judges with those scores over both days deciding who moves on to finals... I think DCI judges can do the same...

For an entire show anyways. Corps can and do show off more traditional marching as it's a different skill set to show off. Judges love seeing variety of skills being displayed, not just the same thing over and over.

I prefer it as it's true to the original. It's such a big musical hit in the original as it is for Crown and part of that is because of the choir.

Hate to break it to you but seems like this has to be explained EVERY year on here...Allentown is indeed judged as a single regional. It's the same judges that are judging the same captions as if it's a single event. DCI has itself explained this before and it's been like this ever since I marched over 10 years ago. Doesn't matter if one night has a completely soaked field with 30 mph winds and the next night has a completely clear and perfect night with no wind, it's all judged as if it was all happening on the same night. Any other event, you would be right. But not for Allentown. Here's a quick link that took me 2 seconds to google showing it explained on the DCI site a few seasons ago: Recap Roundup: DCI Eastern Classic (Allentown)

More people need to understand this. Just like in 2019 where a VERY good corps had to come 6th, this year a VERY good corps will have to settle for 5th...

That's a weird recap...

Saw the San Antonio lot and well it's just crazy to think that THIS is a 5th place drum line. 10-15 years ago this is finals level cleanliness but yet we still have 3 weeks left to go in the season. Showed a quad friend of mine who hasn't seen any shows or lots this year and all he could say was "that's not 1st? wtf is 1st doing then?" Keep up the work Crown! On another note, Boston is just ridiculously clean already and totally deserving of 1st place right now. I hope they can keep it up and actually win the Sanford cause that's my favorite line of the year. However, it's just a coin flip at this point with all these top lines when it comes to who is better on each given night. Bravo guys! I'm going to go ahead and say this is the best percussion year in DCI

Battery, all my percussion friends that I go to shows with are all battery guys and definitely not experts when it comes to front ensembles. We know the basics but no where close enough to judge them. We just always go with the assumption that the front is equal to the battery and rank based off that. Definitely not perfect but it’s the only way we can do it. With judges now being limited to the sidelines, the percussion score may be even more influenced by the front than ever before though.

I disagree. This has been a running thing for a while with people saying Crowns percussion is causing so many issues or holding the corps back (I’m generalizing comments here) from winning. Let me be clear, this Crown line is crazy good. Stupidly good. The problem is, I would probably say the top 10 maybe even 12-13 corps have GREAT lines with the top 5-6 having truly elite ridiculous lines. The reason that’s such an issue is because of how judging scores these lines. DCI judges try to never tie groups in the sub captions. They try to rank groups and give an appropriate spread (again generalizing here) which naturally means if you have 5 or 6 groups that are truly elite, are you going to fit all 5 or 6 in the 8.9-9.0 range that they realistically probably are? Or are you going to rank them and give them 9.0, 8.9, 8.8, 8.7 and 8.6 like what was done in Broken Arrow? With that happening, the “weak” line is going to have an overall percussion score of 17.2 versus the top 18.0. Is there really THAT big of a difference between those lines? In DCI scoring yes, but go out there and actually listen and watch for yourself and you’ll see just how good all of them are. I’ve been to a couple shows now live, and seen the lots for BD, Boston, Crown, Vanguard and Bluecoats. I went to those lots with 4 other percussion guys and the only thing we all agreed on was Boston and BD have probably the best lines this year but all of us disagreed on the 3rd, 4th and 5th rankings. Granted this is basing off the lots NOT the field which can change stuff but still. Either way, if you’re a percussion guy, this is up there with one of the best years for DCI percussion, if not THE best. And Crown’s line is definitely in that grouping.

Somehow Prosperie blood means you are a beast with on snare

A 10 does not mean perfect, it is the highest score a judge can give. PERIOD. Again, the primary judge of the judge is to RANK then RATE. First priority is to make sure the best corps gets the highest score. Then you assign the actual score using the other corps scores as well to rate them at the appropriate step. WGI and DCI use very similar scoring methods when it comes to rating (granted of course the sheets will have slight differences to account for the activity). A 0.1 to 0.2 difference is very comparable, a 0.3 to 0.4 difference is minor differences, 0.5 to 0.7 is definitive differences and 0.8 or more is significant differences between groups. Jeff basically had SCV, Bluecoats and BD all basically level in content, with SCV just ahead of BD who were just ahead of Bluecoats. When it came to achievement, Jeff obviously saw a bit more differences there to give a wider spread between the three groups.

Also helps have a group like SCV getting that 9.9... Not much else left to give BD when SCV deserves a 9.9 and he thinks BD deserves a 0.1 more.

His name is Anthony, I think he has one more year but don't quote me on that.