vaguardguy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Pioneer and Blue Stars (for at least this coming season) are the only remaining DivI corps playing G horns.

I'll never forget that early '02 August evening in Sarnia, ONT. If I could do any II/III show from now until forever, every single night, that would be the one. I think it was part of some greater city-wide celebration, and it was advertised in banners across town as a "marching band show". I swear, that entire western Ontario town had to be at the show. The front stands were completely full, the back stands were completely full, and both sidelines had lines of people standing to watch the show. They had police actually push apart the crowds so the corps can take the field from the side. That was a larger crowd than many DivI shows I've attended, and easily the largest showing for a DivII/III competition in which I've performed (including 2003 DivII/III Finals). Not sure why so many of the competitive corps were in exhibition that night. Maybe it was so they could perform early and be on the road for the big Coast Guard Open the following morning? I do remember the yellow hashes that were impossible to see at dusk (I imagine we went on right before you). We too couldn't see them to save our lives (and I bet the forms weren't so hot), but like you were probably feeding off the energy from that great audience and performed accordingly. At least they made the effort to have them a different color. I always hated it when we'd be told to, "Use the inside hashes," as we were taking the field and have to consciously remember it during the show as all four hashes were white. None of the Canadian shows in 2002 had 55-yard lines marked. They might have had the extra yardline somewhere translated over to the end of the field, and just used regular placards along the front sideline. I don't know. Neither Kitchner nor Sarnia had obviously irregular fields.

I'm glad someone else swears by CoolEdit, though I'm a bigger fan of CoolEdit2000. I first starting using it as a budding EE in programming samples to ROMs for HS audio engineering projects. Later on did I figure out, "Oh yeah, I can take all these drum corps videos lying around and put them to MP3." I've converted LPs to CD en masse before. The only thing you need is the right cables and software like CoolEdit. Begin by plugging the output of your LP player to an input of your sound card. I usually use a stereo audio to headphone connector. On one end it has a male red audio jack and a male white audio jack (one for each audio channel), and on the other end it has a single headphone jack. I connect the two audio jacks to the output of the LP player, and the headphone jack to the microphone input of my sound card. Then I go to the computer and check my "volume controls" control panel, then clicking "options"->"properties"->"recording"->"ok" to make sure the "microphone" input is selected. Then I open up CoolEdit and open a new sample. I then click "record" on CoolEdit about the same time I lower the needle on my LP player. After recording the side of the LP, I stop recording on CoolEdit and begin splicing up the one, long audio file using the software. I first copy/paste the different tracks into new samples, and then splice away the silence at the beginning and ends of each recording. Finally I save the recordings to MP3, one for each track. From there, it's easy to put MP3s on to CDs. I hope that's a help, and if you need to know more, let me know!

Drum corps already has too many aussies. The thing is, they're all in senior corps. Consider that kind of an "ageout gift" .

You might want to try checking whether or not your Prelims DVD is a DVD-R or not. I know DCI's Prelims DVDs are contracted out to a company that produces them on-the-spot using DVD-Rs, and maybe DCA does the same? DVD-Rs and standard DVD's are formatted slightly differently (rather technical - relates to how the bits are arranged on the disc), and some DVD players aren't equipped to play DVD-Rs very well. Most newer DVD players will play both formats well, but an older DVD player will experience problems similar to what you describe. I suggest trying out your Prelims DVD on your computer (if you have a DVD drive and a player) and see if you encounter the same problems there.

Yeah, good ol' memory lane. That was prelims you're thinking of with the really long rain delay. I know, it rained so much that week that they all just blur together. Remember how that school was some kind of crazy "outdoor" school where all the hallways were covered walkways outside? Oh, and that roller coaster across the street that always timed itself perfectly with the prettiest moment of a corps' ballad? The flooded pit area with the cardboard landing was my favourite. What an awful show. I swear to this day that our score that Tuesday evening had to be a gift. We had our corps photo after our performance, and we were all covered in mud (white pants) and looking like someone had kicked our puppy. Good times! Wow, talking to a Raider. The world must be coming to an end ! Admit it, we definitely had the fiercest rivalry in DCI between '02-'04. We just got no credit for it since we were DivIII. We might've just barely come out on top those three summers, but you guys definitely came out on top in the end. Congratulations on your winning DivIII this past summer, I only wish we could've been there to make things interesting for y'all . Edit: P.S. Do you really come from a town pronounced "Wack-off", or is the correct pronounciation something a little more polite?

Revolution began what was to be a trilogy back in 2003 with their "Exploration I: Connotations" show using Edward Gregson's "Connotations". Though I'm not absolutely certain, I seem to recall the second part of their trilogy was supposed to be about emotions or some other more abstract concept? Sadly, they imploded in the Spring of '04 and thoroughly cleaned house of their administrative and instructional staff (which was sad because we were especially close to the "old" Revolution corps). Their entirely new staff that fielded the corps in '05 decided to take a different direction, and the trilogy was never completed. Again, my memory is a little fuzzy on this and there aren't very good records of them online, but I seem to recall something like that.

Yes, as Pioneersop98 said, North Point was in fact the FL high school drum corps mentioned a few months back. I wonder if their director is even aware of Hawthorne Gold, and if anyone's ever suggested taking a part of his ensemble to local DCI DivIII competition? If someone talks to him regularly, maybe you Pioneersop98, consider suggesting a few FL DCI shows. If you need a model, Hawthorne Gold's director's e-mail address is on the DCI site.

I'm sure he just loves being talked about on internet forums </sarcasm>. On the other hand, he's getting fame in his own right nowadays (as per the interview). He used to be a mellophone player in his DivIII days, and easily the most likeable person you could ever meet.

I miss GBV also, they were among the first drum corps I ever saw. Any corps that would dress their members up like this for a Les Miserables show and like that for a Carmen show deserves serious credit. They were not a big corps, but they had strong talent. From my understanding, they stopped fielding a junior corps after the summer of 2000, and later put their efforts into an area senior corps, Allegheny Nightstorm which has since folded. I'll ask a friend of mine who's quite knowledgeable on the Pittsburgh pageantry scene, but I'm sure it'll lead to another story of some complex merger combination that eventually collapses in on itself as seems to be the case with most drum corps/drumlines/winterguards in that area.

More like, "Memphis Sound would've made Finals if the rain came half an hour earlier." Had it never rained that day, they still would've been bested by LVK, CNYC, and Raiders. All the DivIII corps seeded into Semifinals up through LVK: Allegiance Elite, Teal Sound, Raiders, CNYC, and LVK competed, followed by DivII Memphis Sound. Scores were being posted on a fence outside the exit gate as they became available, and by the time Memphis Sound finished their show and the DivIII Marion Glory Cadets were lining up to take the field, the wind began to pick up as a prelude to another typical Orlando storm. While Marion was performing, our score was posted to the top of the fence and we hurried back to the bus to store the equipment before the rain began to fall. Marion finished their show, but the competition was cancelled due to rain before DivII Impulse could take the field. The remaining scores were tabulated with MGC winning the show and Memphis Sound falling between Raiders and Teal Sound. Despite raining every single day of Finals week, this was probably the fiercest storm of the week making the DivII/III Preliminaries deluge look like a light sprinkling. The field was unusable, and a consensus of II/III directors chose to cancel the remainder of the competition seeding the corps who had not competed into Finals competition. The Semifinals scores, since they were earned fair and square, were held up allowing MGC and LVK to advance to Finals. It was unlikely that Impulse and other higher-scoring corps were going to fall below CNYC and out of Finals, and MGC's Thursday night score did not surpass Impulse's Tuesday night score, so the seeding into Finals was based on Prelims placement. Either way, the East Coast DivIII corps put on an amazing shows that Thursday night, and despite Memphis' great performance, they still fell 0.35pts and three corps away from Finals. I'll agree that 2003 was not a benchmark year for DivII, especially at the top, but it was definitely a cutthroat race in the 11th-15th place II/III ranks. In fact, only 0.1pts separated LVK, CNYC, and Raiders from that 12th spot into Finals with LVK scoring an 81.30, CNYC scoring an 81.25, and Radiers scoring an 81.20. Considering all three corps were within an hour and a half's drive from each other, this made for quite the rivalry. I remember joking with some DivIII aficionados that year that if there were only a way to combine LVK's colorguard, CNYC's drumline, and Raider's brassline, we would've soundly brought the DivIII trophy East that summer. I have no doubt Memphis would've made Finals that year, maybe even passing MGC, had they not took the week off prior to Finals so that their members could attend their HSs' band camps. They never did that again. As for 2003 being a "black hole" year for DivII, I'll agree only because it had to follow 2002 which was such a fantastic year for the division. Every year since 2000 has paled in comparison to what that summer offered, and 2003 made it very clear. 2002 had three corps who would go on to compete in DivI later that week, one making DivI Finals and another making DivI Semifinals. The top eight in DivII (Magic, CapReg, Mandies, SCVC, Spartans, Espy, Pats, and ECJ) could've held their own in DivI, and the ninth-place Jersey Surf took quite a risk with their first costumed "fun" show. 2003 saw the top four from the previous year not returning, and the gap was not filled. Esperanza and Patriots upped the ante a little, but neither would've even medalled the year before. In fact, DivII still has yet to return to that calibre of performance where the winner could easily be assured a DivI Semifinalist spot if Quarterfinals-advancement were still allowed. It's going in the right direction, but it's still not quite there. Either way, scores are hardly comparable from year to year. Theoretically, points are awarded by meeting the criteria specified in the boxes on the back of the sheets, but we know subjectively that as the activity continues to evolve, so too do our performance expectations. Each division has had their up and down years, but since following DivII/III since 2000, I can honestly say that not one single year has disappointed me. If I had to rank the years for DivII, and mind you these are little more than spectator opinions, I'd probably place them: '02, '00, '04, '01, '05, '03. Doing the same for DivIII, they'd probably go: '00, '02, '04, '03, '01, '05. I don't know how many people on this board remember those years, but I do think that would make for a fun discussion; maybe for another thread.

First, let me reiterate I am by no means an official representative of LVK. What I write below is largely conjecture and personal opinion from an ex-member with close ties to the organisation. I doubt you'll ever get something official from the organisation. To the best of my knowledge, there are no longer very many people involved in the administration of LVK, and the few remaining are not sufficiently active in the corps' operations. If they do return in the very near future, they will probably be only a shadow of the competitive venture we once were. I suggest you review posts #52 and #59 in this thread, that's probably about as much information as you're going to get without personally contacting the corps' past and current administration (and even then, I suspect you'll get mixed stories). It's a shame all this fairly new equipment will be sitting out another season, but I imagine there are still far-off plans to put them to eventual use. Thank you for your interest. It means a lot to me that people are still asking about us. It was a great run while it lasted, and I wouldn't trade my three years at LVK for anything. We made our mark, we put our name in the record books, we remained competitive until the end (we were never bested by a corps at championships who wasn't at least 10% larger than us our last two seasons), and the membership enjoyed a high-quality experience that would be tough to match. That is nothing short of a testament to the staff (administrative and instructional) and membership involved in LVK's brief, four-year history. I wouldn't want to see the corps return in any shape or form that cannot provide a similar competitve and educational experience of the calibre LVK afforded us. It's sad to see any corps go, but I think this was one that ran its course.

Not to be overly critical, but you do tend to profess a lot of misinformation in your posts. I strongly believe in constructive criticism, so allow me to offer you the following sites: http://www.corpsreps.com/ http://www.fromthepressbox.com/ Both of these sites have detailed information on corps' placements, and I think it would be a fine idea to cross-check your information (especially since you're relatively new to drum corps) before you post. For the record, Glassmen hit a 12-year low in 2003 (nice to see things working well again in Toledo), Southwind finished 15th in 2001 (people seem to forget that one, but I guess it was kind of a letdown after such an amazing 2000 performance), and Mandarins have finished as high as 16th (a DivII corps in DivI Semifinals) in 2001. I hope that helps :) !

There are exceptions to the rule, but they're just that: exceptions. For every instance you cite of a smaller corps beating a larger corps, I'm confident I can cite ten instances of larger corps beating smaller corps. I won't say that it's impossible for a 60-member corps to beat a 135-member corps, but I will say that the 60-member corps has a distinct disadvantage. The sheets reward a lot more than just individual technique and execution. There are ensemble captions, and all captions heavily take into account effect. Size contributes greatly to effect, and displays of technical proficiency by a larger number of members will be more heavily rewarded than the same proficiency by a smaller number of members (rightly so). Do I think II/III should reevaluate their judging criteria? Since DivIII corps have to compete against DivII corps for finalist spots, maybe the answer is to place more emphasis on execution and technique over effect and design? Maybe consider what WGI did placing a 60/40 scoring ratio in their equipment and movement captions with respects to the execution/vocabulary sub-captions? Since DivII/III is arguably (though I tend to disagree) a training ground for DivI, maybe they should focus more on individual technique and reward smaller ensembles that display high levels of individual performance over larger ensembles that may generate more effect but individually execute sloppily? I'm inclined to believe retooling the judging criteria for the II/III sheets is the best way to ensure a greater focus on the education of the individual marching member while ensuring a level playing field for corps regardless of size. Edit: Retooled a word or two

Yeah, I wonder if there's a way to request a thread's closing by consensus? If so, count me in. Oh, and sorry Lee. No hard feelings meant by anything posted.

With all the political hoopla over Supreme Court justices and their ability to interpret the text of the constitution, I think it's very important we all carefully analyse the definition of "racism". These are important life-skills to have. You'll see that using MW's definition above, Lee was in fact making racist comments. Let's consider this more of a learning exercise - a betterment of ourselves - to better see what is in fact racist and what isn't. Let's start with definition #2: "racial prejudice or discrimination", with the focus specifically on the word "discrimination". I'll give you that it would be very difficult to presume Lee's remarks were "prejudice"-d (one can argue his comments weren't based on preconceived beliefs, but rather on direct observation), but his comments were discriminatory. Step back for a second and not think of "discrimination" in the colloquial sense we use it with regards to racial difference, but rather the softer definition we associate with "to discriminate" such as, "Wow, Peter has such discriminating taste in fine beers," or, "I can't discriminate Peter's contra playing from that of the sound a dying whale (just for the record, I am being silly here ^0^ )." When you look at MW's definition of "discrimination" with careful attention to the relevant definition 3.a. (be sure while you're there to quickly look at the hyper link referencing the definition of "discriminating/discriminate"), his comments were indeed discriminating categorically rather than individually on basis of race. To Lee's credit, his comments are a far cry from the offensive, nutjob racist remarks that we as a society refuse to condone. Instead, his categorical assertion needs to be evaluated more critically, and to be addressed with greater exposure and education. Yes, his comments were definitively racist, but I think this has been an educational experience for everyone and we're all better people for it *group hug *! Hooray drum corps! Edit: Wordsmithing

Edit: ...

I suspect there's no relation. This start-up drum corps is based out of RI, and Northern Lights winterguard (which stems from the folded Northern Lights marching band of which you're thinking) is based out of WA.

I'm not 100% certain on all of these (especially the classes in which they compete), but a number of corps have winter programs including: Blue Devils have an IO winterguard Blue Knights have an PIW winter drumline Esperanza has an IW winterguard Pacific Crest has an IW winterguard SCV and Pioneer are hoping to field winterguards this season Impulse fields a PIW winter drumline Academy fields a winterguard Lake Erie Regiment fields a IA winterguard Raiders field an IA winterguard A lot of since-folded drum corps still exist as winter programs. Ventures, Freelancers, Sky Ryders (occasionally), Black Watch (I believe), Patriots (if they return), and probably many more have winterguards or winter drumlines. Some corps have loose relationships with winterguards (Teal Sound with Paradigm IW for example). There are probably a number of others I'm forgetting, but it seems to be that corps fielding winter programs is a much more common practice out west than it is anywhere else in the country. Good luck Pioneer on bucking the trend!

No, not even close. Half the II/III corps shown never made it past prelims. I can't find any relation between the corps other than a rough alphabetical order (and even that's not entirely true). I bet it's a work in progress, and maybe they'll try and get pictures of all corps who competed in DCI competition last summer!

I believe your question was answered a little in your "Reasons to Eliminate DivII" thread a while back, but I'll gladly give you a few reasons why a corps' administration my choose to indefinitely remain in DivII. *The most obvious is to provide an alternative to DivI touring for its membership. Not all people can give up their entire summers to marching, and excluding this large subset of kids from the junior corps activity would be a travesty. Yes, this is more of a abstract, principled reason instead of a concrete, tangible reason; but it's equally valid. I marched in a very-competitive, weekend-only DivIII corps because I had to work 40hrs a week to pay for college. I held down a M-F, 8-5 job during the week, then went straight to drum corps for the weekend. This lasted from the first day of May until the third week of July for three years. I then got to quit my job, and by the time I came back from tour (2.5 weeks was just perfect for me), it was time to prepare to return to school (which I could now afford). I know there are DivII corps that also have rehearsal schedules that permit their membership to retain jobs through the summer. Corps with these lighter rehearsal schedules will never attain a DivI competitive level, and these corps in no way should be expected to compete against corps that are rehearsing every single day. *There are financial reasons to remaining in DivII. I don't know if you've been following the struggles of Atlantic Guardian (he posts occasionally on DCP and Soundmachine). He tried to start a DivIII drum corps in Maine, and after two years of fielding parade corps realised that the infrastructure of the region was as such that the most he could ever hope to attain was a small, DivIII corps. The financial resources of his region, whether it be the availability of arts grants, the individual wealth of potential membership, or the market for buying equipment and supplies, were too limited to sustain a top-level drum corps. I am certain with enough effort, his additional challenges (which are not faced to the same degree by corps in NJ, MA, IL, WI, or CA) could be overcame; but at the expense of time and effort he cannot afford to dedicate. *Corps directors have lives. Running a DivI corps is like a full-time job. Running a DivII/III corps is like a very, very, very work-intensive part-time job. Some corps directors might want to continue running corps, but are in no position to give up their lifestyle to dedicate the time and energy to get it to a DivI level. *I will contend that it is easier to recruit members as an upper-tier DivII corps than as a lower-tier DivI corps. From personal experience, I can tell you that people who've marched corps like Partriots, Spartans, and East Coast Jazz command more respect (and are usually more technically proficient) than people who marched corps like Pioneer, Troopers, or Kiwanis Kavaliers. I think people would rather shine on a smaller stage than be relegated to an extra on the large arena (and now in DivII, you have to be really bad to not make the Saturday show and get a medal around your neck). For a corps in a membership-strapped region, competitive success may be what keeps your corps from going under for lack of bodies. *A corps director might have some personal, principled reasons why they might not want to compete on the DivI stage. You can't fault them for wanting to provide a competitive youth activity, but have qualms about working that close with DCI. It's not like there are many alternatives left for competitive junior drum corps other than DCI (remember EMass, GSC, and others). DivII/III might be a better answer for them. I'm sure there are many more reasons, and if I come up with any I will post them. As for now, I am strapped for time and need to head out. Best wishes, Edit: minor grammatical/spelling errors

The individual talent found in DivII corps is comparable to the more-competitive DivIII corps given similar rehearsal schedules. If you pull a random snare drummer out of Yamato and a random snare drummer out of Blue Stars, you'll probably find their abilities and training pretty similar. Supposedly, the essential difference between DivII and DivIII corps is size (if there is an implied or perceived talent gap in addition to the requisite corps-size, that would make having DivIII corps compete directly with DivII corps for placement that much more unfair). Since DivIII lines are smaller to accommodate the smaller brassline (mind you, the size of the brassline is the biggest determinant in selecting a corps' drumline size, and in II/III we all know how hard it is to find lots of brass players), you might find it even harder to make a good DivIII line. I recall my corps' audition camps and being astounded by the number of people trying out for snare. Since we averaged between 17-19 horns, we never had more than four snare spots. Trying out for those four spots were sometimes more than 20 auditionees. If only some of those cuts were willing to pick up a brass instrument, how things might've been very different; but most ended up sitting out the summer. I feel sorry for drummers and how hard it is for them to make a drum corps, even in DivIII. There are other options. You could send him to a lower-tier DivII/III corps. You could send him to a DCA corps (if he can't make any of the east-coast DivII lines, I suspect he wouldn't make Bucs or Bush either - try sending him to Skyliners, they run a good program). Still, best of luck finding a tutor! I live in NoVA and marched in Eastern PA, so I know plenty of people in between. I'll ask around to some of the drummers I know, and I wish your son the best!

Hmmm...that's cool! I had heard the Blue Star's brass arranger was going to be a certain other ex-Star of Indiana brass arranger, but this would be just as good. Rumors shouldn't carry much weight around here, but either way I suspect he won't be actively involved in the corps' day-to-day operations (but I would love to be proven wrong on that one). Donnie van Doren is one of the most amazing instructors I ever got to work under. I swear, he can accomplish more in ten minutes of rehearsals than most staff can do in a 16hr, all-day practice. Any corps he touches is sure to turn to gold given his abilities. The Blue Stars have a long way to go from last summer if they want to be competitive in DivI. This might very well be a strong start. Go Blue Stars!

...or folded :( .

They were darn good, top-12 DivI quality. In fact, I'd say the only II/III guard since 2000 better than Pats03 would be Magic02; however, the reason you don't find them on this list is that they were DivII, and are on the corresponding DivII version of this thread. You will see them there!