27thAvantCadets

Can you send pics?

Here is where I stand. Amplification is a double edge sword as illuded to by some others. Amplifying a bad player is like putting a neon sign over the head of the one guy who is always just off of his drill spot! And even when top dollar is spent on amplification, it can malufunction and be hurtful rather than helpful. All that said, I support amplification and if one group spend tons of dough on electronics, that should not play a role in scoring over a group that has selected not to. However, chances are good that if a corps can afford to spend top dollar on Amps, then they probably have a decent staff and other amenities that would/could/might score them higher anyway. Lets face it, if all corps could afford to bring on amplification, then most would. For a group to select not to use electronics, it will 90% be based on financial reasons, 10% based on just not wanting to change or take on the new adventurer and risk of amps. The argument of 1 tuba versus amping the pit is only helpful if your corps is buying new $8000 tubas each year. If your group does not have $8K for a tuba, then they dont have $8K for amps. But dollars to dollars, the argument is sound. Pit limitation is tough because you start to get into restrictor plate racing. Making all groups level is not artistic. Gimmicks are what we all love about this activity. Whats the next crazy gimmick? 36 bass drums, or a drumline that puts down the drums and picks up accordians? So if a group wants to put out 12 Marimbas (who could afford that???) But if thats the gimmick or the musicially appropriate or design appropriate decision for that years production, then so be it. I would perhaps consider limiting the pit to a percentage of the total membership, so we can perhaps ensure we remain a marching arts activity rather than 12 marching members behind a symphony orchestra. AND I would whole heartedly support the regulation against the use of extra bodies in the pit to ensure a corps meets the minimum member requirements. Class A corps with 15 marching members and 20 in the pit is a con and is not fooling anyone. But it is not against the rules, so it happens. So again, pit members limited to a percentage of the total corps membership. Just my 2 cents, rant away.

Ya know the rinky dink miniature drum set you find in the toy stores at christmas time? Well there ya go! Save your money.

Yes, I am an alumnus, but I try to be fair and balanced in my evaluations, not biased based on my affiliations. I love the activity, I just don't love every show by every corps every year. Still applaud the effort put forth by members and staff alike. But the most important thing to remember is that this is just my opinion. As mentioned, still a big fan of the Cavies. For those youngsters out there...check out Cavies 1985 Planets show...it was about as far ahead of its time as it get, in a year when the top 5 corps were absolutely amazing. Many, many great shows since then as well. There is no doubt, and based on early scores, Cavs will be in the top 5 for sure. Win...well, when predicting a winner, I am not as fair or balanced....Cadets!!!

Before you say anything, I know it is June and I know my opinion is based on one grainy video from Youtube, as I have not seen them live yet, wont until late July, but I just don't get it. The best part to me was the three staccato notes at the end of part 2. Sure, incredibly chalked full of extreme talent...no doubt, but the dissonant chords on top of the weird audio tracks, just not for me. The tenors playing upside down...now that is a great gag! The drill is always spectacular, you come to expect that from the cavs, but the show is just "ehh" to me. But as another poster said, it usually takes half the summer of tweaks and changes to get them to the sweet spot. Still a big fan of the Green!

What do I think of this post? I am so glad you asked. So, I have heard all the sides to this argument over the years. Similar threads about Cymbal lines have popped up many times. This is what I would say to this....and this is all opinion. You have to assess the value proposition. Simply put, you have to establish the need for marching cymbals; both musically and visually for both the ensemble/corps and the customer/audience. Then determine an approach to address the need. Is the approach a 4 member cymbal line, a 5 member cymbal line, or percussionists within the pit utilizing cymbals amongst the multitude of other instrumentation they can play additionally during the performance. Following the approaches to solve for the need you must determine the benefits per costs resulting from the selected approach. Meaning simply...pros and cons for each approach; i.e.; 5 member cymbal line takes 5 spots away from other sections, or marching cymbal lines bring unique visual opportunities no other section can offer. Finally, but certainly not the least important is the competitive set. Whats is the competition doing? Does having a cymbal line vs. not having one bring an advantage or disadvantage from the judging panel? My opinion say, no more than any other section, if marching cymbals are performed with excellence, which is how any other section would be judged. But the biggest argument for or against in my mind is how can a corps get the biggest "bang for the buck", get the most out of what they are allowed. A member who can also play marimba or aux percussion seems to be the answer...sadly. The other piece of the puzzle that no one has mentioned is the arrangers. A unique study would be to look at a percussion arrangers history. Did they march in corps with cymbal lines? Are they accustomed to writing for cymbal lines? Do they understand how to write for them? It sounds easy...ya know, big crash on the impact points and less loud taps and such on softer moments....but it is not easy. I am not saying that the very talented crop of O Class or W Class percussion arranger cant do it, but perhaps some of them are just not used to it. Most arrangers are very accomplished musicians and arrangers writing on various levels from MS/HS level, to BOA and WGI/DCA/DCI, so I am certain they could if they wanted to, but just might not want to because they never have for drum corps before. Just something to consider. It will certainly be interesting to watch Madison and SCV this year. Lastly, I want to mention that cymbal sections are fabulous for younger students who may not possess the skills to march in another section, but by touring for a year within the cymbal section they get a full immersion into the drum corps culture and can perhaps continue to learn the skills for the other sections of the corps. but beware, once the cymbal line gets in your blood....you might not want to ever march another instrument!

Paul, Congrats! Most important thing.....Are you having fun? Hope so. Art

Please forgive me, I am not on here very often, and I do not know of any recent posts about the Brigs. I check their website, but it is a shell of a site at this point. Anyone know if they are planning a comeback? 2011? 2012? Thanks ...I hope so!

"That" uniform for me... Your first uniform is always special. Especially true for me. I watched with anticipation from the sideline in the Pyramid mall parking lot for a whole year before I got to participate...it was a special day it was when we suited up for the first show. Then I was honored to travel to Revere and march 2-7. Unfortunately, part of the strategy for '86 was to change the uniforms. Still an honor! But, it was always about the Maroon and Gold for me. The first time I put on the uniform it was like a rite of passage. They were old, and heavy, and after one show in the hot summer...yes, they stunk. But, it was a good stink...if you kow what I mean. FHNSAB.

Loaded question, so many great answers. Ya know, as a spectator/fan it is always nice to be surprised with new concepts and corps that select music/show concepts/themes that are fresh and have never been on the field before. It is refreshing and make us, as spectators(and probably as corps veterans), feel like the activity is still growing and still innovative and not becoming stale. However, as a teacher, instructor and parent it is also important to me that we continue to influence the new members with the great scores of some of the very best composers with music and shows that have been done before. Believe me, it is sometime hard to sit through West Side Story on the field again, I mean, it has been done...and it is so very easy for me(and some of you too, I suspect), to compare the current corps playing music, such as WSS, to the corps that have done it in the past. But shouldn't these new students/members/kids, who are truly the next generation of fine musicians, have the same opportunities to play these wonderful compositions??? Lets face it, we will never see the exact same composition on the field from year to year or from corps to corps, the show design, drill and arrangements will always be different, and it is a very good possiblity that the arrangers will actually use the examples from the corps who previously performed the selected music to make their arrangements different, unique and special in its own right. That does not mean that WSS is not the same WSS, because "rumble" is still "rumble" and "Maria" is still "maria", but there is truly no comparison from the 1984 Garfield Cadets to the 1994 Cadets or even the 2009 Holy Name Cadets; all very different. Still, in my mind, in 2009, I was still comparing from one to the other as well as to the other great corps who have attempted WSS. If the Cadets select WSS again, I will still stand tall for my Alma mater, but I will absolutely sigh the big sigh of disappointment when the announcement is made, and then wonder all winter what they will do to make it original, unique and amazing, and I know for sure the 2011 Cadet members will have a truly magnificant experience performing one of the greatest peices of music ever written. ***Disclaimer*** I have no idea what the 2011 Cadets repitoire will be. This is just an example. So what would I like to see...gosh...how about...hmmm. I would like to see any of the top 17 corps attempt a Indiana Jones/National Treasure show concept. could be allot of fun to perform as well as entertaining to see. Ala Dutch Boy '84/Freelancers '90/Les Stentors 2000. Also a new broadway show I am digging right now is "In the Heights". That could be fun, but it incorporates quite a bit of rap and fast spoken word, so not sure how that would translate to field music...without the obvious use of a microphone to actually rap on the field, but the music could stand alone. I think a Robin Hood show could be wonderful. The music from the "price of thieves" version with Kevin Cosner is truly great, and now the latest version, Russel Crowe, could also influence the scores. Ala Southwind '92/SCV cadets '92 I am OK with props, the mirrors from BD 2010 were really cool, but so confusing. I wonder if there were mistakes that the mirrors actually hid....come on, its BD, probably not. more cymbal lines!!! So what do I not want to see: Well, I would rather not have the electric keyboards eliminate the tuba sections. I accepted the use of the keyboard, but not over use. I dont want to see electric guitars, bass guitars, saxophones, clarinets, or flutes I dont really want to see gold horns...change the key, but please leave them silver! I am hopeful the G7 can come to a compromise. Some of what is being discussed is actually really exciting.

I wish all my friends at X the best of luck. I really do hope you are successful in accomplishing all of your goals.

Best of Luck X!

Gotta love DCP. Oy Vey!

Who are you refering to with regard to phony numbers and big promises? I find it funny that you commend the knights for their honesty and then post a vague negative comment yourself. Why dont you try being honest as well? However, mom did always say that if you dont have anythng nice to say, then dont say anything at all. So, perhaps you should just zip it. Pauly...good communication, but it might be a bit much, looks like you are bumping twice and three times a day with no new news. Still wondering what you are doing???

Kyle, nice video, best of luck! Art

This was a very appropriate and valid post until you said you didn't think they'd make finals. You are silly to think that. BUT, I will take your point, that perhaps some of the eligible talent does not know of these accomplishments of these staffers. That could potentially sway them to go to a corps that may have placed well in recent years. Good point. BUT, I still say....6th place baby! (and yes, I do know the current state of drum corps in the mid west, all feasibly championship potential. Lets face it, if I were of age, I would march Scouts one year, Phantom the next, Cavies the next, Stars the next, and so on and so on....thats assuming I wasn't cut day one. The talent level is soooo high these days!~ All amazing.

I love it. Someone actually said that this "new" staff will have to prove themselves!!!! BAHHH Hah Ha Ha ha~! This staff has more credentials than any 3 corps and you can pick 'em. (at least now since the dream team at the Cadets has gone their seperate ways). This staff deserves all of our praise for what they have done in the past! AND....what they will do this year. If I were of marching age....I would have already booked my flights! The members of the 2010 Scouts will have an amazing year. My message to all of them, "pay attention", 'cause it will go by way to fast. You will work your tails off, but it will be worth it. Do everything your staff asks of you...and I will see you all on finals night! The 2010 Scouts will be amazing! Some BIG name corps will be moved down the leaderboards all across the USA all summer long, and then at finals we will see the 2010 Scouts in 6th place! Just my opinion...which in my head is law!

Oh Paul, What are you doing????

Staff is part of the equation.... In this case a HUGE part.... Amazingly talented members are also needed...a great staff will help to bring in great talent...(I thought the members this year were talented!!) I voted 7-9 = 2010 and 1-3 = 2011. Maybe wishful thinking, but come on....its Madison with a dream team staff! And to all those who are saying that these guys have been "out of the game" for too long.... just wait....Madison 2010 will be truly amazing. I'll bet on it!~ Go Scouts!

here ya go....DCA website. http://www.dcacorps.org/?p=620

Now this I can agree with! Great point. and believe it or not....I actually teach college economics. So, basic economics I do understand. You make some really good points, some that I otherwise would not of thought of. Thanks for this discussion topic!

So, I haven't been paying much attention to DCP recently, and I stumbled onto this thread which caught my interest, good topic, many aspects. Tom Mac, I agree with you from a recruiting perspective, or even a "bring a friend along" perspective. $35-$45 bucks is a bit much for a small town stop along the summer tour. If it is a super regional, then maybe I might pay a little more, but...within reason. Comparing a summer evening spent outside in the bleachers watching the sport of drum corps to going to the movies is just silly. I understand the idea of someone who is brand new to drum corps not feeling like it is worth it, but, just like anything else, they have to bite the bullet to understand what drum corps is! If you've never been scuba diving, the instructors are not going to lower their fees, drop the cost of the equipment rental, waive the boat charter fees and give you the wetsuit, just so you can see if you like it. The costs are there for a reason. To cover the actual expenses and for those who are offering the service to make a small profit. Some might think that going to a professional ball game is not worth the price because they dont know the game or the rules, ect. (different world for many reasons, I know, but....) It is still outside, in the bleachers, and could be called due to weather. PLUS, there is usually only crappy organ music at those games!!!!! LOL. It is truly a measure of priority and/or importance. I know some who will spend major bucks on their boat, or on their back yard. These are priorities for them. They would never drop $100 on a broadway show, or $40 buck on a pro ball game. To them, it is money not well spent. Simply because it is not their priority. But those folks I guess are the extremes, if there is someone who is borderline, who might consider it a fun evening of entertainment that is worth the cost, then perhaps you need to bite the bullet and pay there entrance fee. (or better yet, show them one of your many videos and DVDs that are sitting in your entertainment cabinet...I know you all have at least one!) Once they are hooked, then get them to pay their own way in. Then there is the world of the sponsors and making certain that enough money is made to pay the corps, judges, ect and then of course, make a few bucks for themselves. We all know that the corps prices have gone up,(with gas and ect), the Judges are also not cheap (smaller judging panels help, but....), so the sponsors MUST increase the tix price to keep up. I would love to see shows at $10 or less, and YES, I would probably go to more shows if the prices were cheaper, but, then again, it is all relative, and if the price of gas were cheaper I would probably drive more too. The times they have changed! Everything is expensive...my duaghter runs track...seems like a pretty cheap sport...just go run! NOPE, $250 this season. And you thought drum corps was getting expensive. Beyond all this talk about tix prices and attendance, this thread started out with a question of odd scheduling....my question is this: Do you really want the same corps at the same shows every year? Thats what it seems like when reading the very first post. "The hurc are usually here, but not this year", "the Bucs come to this show every year, but not this year..." (paraphrasing). I know we grow accustom to seeing our favorite corps each year, but it is sometimes fun to see corps we dont see alot of too. Now, if you are saying that in the past a certain show has had 9 corps and this year it is down to 6 or 4, then that is all about the economy! and that sucks! Which, brings us back to the tix prices and this vicsous circle! But then again, what the hell do I know! now I will go back into hiding.

who are the Vigilantes? And what happened to Frontier? No So Cal? So cool to see Austin Stars making the trip. Grennies and Gold back! Awesome. Fusion core....Hmmm. I wonder if they can repeat.... Man, take a couple of months off and changes everywhere.....

Friends, I had a nice conversation with my supplier yesterday and she is really willing to work with us on this. (she has over 200,000 shirts she is trying to off-load and like everyone in today's economy, she is willing to do what she can to make things work out for everyone.) Here is what I found out. If you/we could come up with a shirt design, she can get you a virtual proof of what the shirt will look like. Then you could do a pre-order type fundraiser based on what the shirts will be. Whatever the dollar amount that you decide to sell the shirts for (lets just use $10 each for easy math), if you were to have pre-orders enough to cover the invoice, then she will have all the shirts printed and ship with a 30 day window for payment. (1008 shirts total) Using my example from above, (aprox. $2200 expense), then the members would only need to sell aprox. 220 shirts to cover the invoice. All the additional shirts would then be your inventory and you could continue to sell them throughout the season and even perhaps into next season (or even in another group within your family of performance ensembles) with all the proceeds being 100% profit as the invoice will already be covered. I thought it was generous of my supplier to offer this deal. Most are hard core, and want money first before any work is completed, even conceptual work. I wanted to pass it along as soon as I could. Do you really want to carry an inventory? Probably not, but it is the 1008 shirts that make up this great deal, so it is the beast of burden I guess. Based on 100 members in the corps, if each member were to take an order form(that I could prepare for you, if you need), they would basically only need to pre-sell 2 shirts each to cover the invoice. And if they could pre-sell 5 shirts each, then you would cover your invoice and bring in aprox. $2300 in profits and have 500 additional shirts to continue to sell throughout the season each sale providing pure profit from that point on. And if they could sell 10 shirts each, then you would deplete your entire inventory, cover the invoice and bring in profits of aprox. $7800, all in about 30 days, all based on pre-orders with no inventory left over. If you do have some leftover inventory, then you could set up a souvie table at shows, or even sell them online through your websites until they are sold. But hey, I am not pushing this, I just wanted to let you know what I found out about my suppliers flexibility. Either way, whether you choose to entertain this deal or not, I am good with it. I have already hooked up one corps and they are already done with the shirt design, so it can truly be a fast turn-around and the money could be rolling in quick. Looking forward to hearing from you all, Best of luck. Art