RichCranford82

Oh, and pretty much anything that came out of the mouth of Carmine "these bands are really cool" Appice in '81.

1982, Rob McConnell blurting out "someone just bought it!" during Phantom's show when the guard member who was portraying Spartacus "died".

What in the world has that got to do with the amount of audience members attending shows over the course of an entire season?

"Alienating potential fans"? This is exactly the kind of thinking that is the inherent problem with todays DCI. Can you just imaging the size of the fan base for DCI if they were able to actually keep the majority of fans over the years? Not alienating "potential" fans (not even sure who exactly they would be) is all well and good, but maybe a better idea would be to first try not to alienate those who already supported the activity and build on that.

So by this rational if I take me and three friends, me on the drums, someone on guitar, another on kazoo and the other on an electronic keyboard and play an updated version of "Joe's Garage" that some may find exciting and entertaining, that means we should be able to compete at a Drum Corps show. Sounds pretty silly, doesn't it? Well, since there would be no limits and I've wanted to see an all Zappa show for years I say let's go for it Mike, you've made a believer out of me !

Humor me here Mike, you still haven't answered my question on how you would go about judging. Now I should tell you I have never been to a marching band competition and don't plan on going any time soon, I'm a Drum Corps fan , so maybe you can enlighten me on how these competitions are judged, other than in a completely subjective manner.

Ok, this makes absolutely no sense to me, no need for "artificial" limits? Then why and how exactly would you be able to judge such a wide range (limitless in your eyes) of "ensembles" against one another? It is after all a competition, is it not? Now if you want to make it some sort of "talent night" just say so, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. I do respect your opinions Mike and more importantly the civil way you go about it, but at times it really seems like you are talking in circles. Please explain to me how you would go about judging an activity with no boundries or limitations whatsoever.

I'm glad you brought up the 84 Freelancers, they were the first one I thought of when I read this thread, one of my all-time favorite shows and the perfect example of how well voice CAN work in a show - WITHOUT amplification of course!

The Bridgemen did a commercial for either Twix or Kit Kat candy bars back in the 80's (84 or 85 I think), if I recall it just featured the drumline and they weren't in uniform, but it was them! I actually have a copy on VHS somewhere, now I'll probably spend the rest of the night digging it out!

No offense Mike, but to me this is a very, very tired argument, simply used by those who want to justify their vision or idea of what they would like Drum Corps to be. The thinking is that there will always be those who disagree with any change, so let's just chalk it up to we "can't please all of the people all of the time" and lump together anyone who has ever been against any change into the same category. That way of thinking may make it convenient to end any discussion there, but that's the easy way out does not address the current issue one bit, just goes further in alienating people. Is it possible to "evolve" (defined as changing or developing gradually) an activity while maintaining the intergrity of what made it popular in the first place? Absolutely, I think that's what we've seen all this time up until a few years ago. It's clear that you and I see things very differently and I'm fine with that (as if anyone would care or it would make any difference if I wasn't ), but I do have one question for you and I ask this with all due respect. Is there a "line in the sand" for you Mike, or do you hold to the belief that change is inevitable and parameters be ######. I guess what I'm really curious about are there any aspects of Drum Corps that you would like to see stay the same, or asked another way have there been any changes that you didn't agree with?

Maybe not the entire purpose, but you can't deny that acoustic is exactly what Drum Corps was and no longer is. I obviously can't say with 100% certainty that if Drum Corps was using artificial amplification back in 1980 I wouldn't have fallen in love with the activity as I did, I can say with some degree of confidence that I would not have been as impressed and blown away with what I was hearing as I was back then.

Mike, performed at high levels of excellence? Ok, I'll give you this one, but I'll have to respectfully disagree with your statement that they are creating "highly exciting" shows, although that's certainly in the eye of the beholder. I mentioned earlier that my "line in the sand" was when the activity ceased to be truly acoustic, but honestly my interest in DCI had slowly declined over the years leading up to that fateful decision. It had nothing to do with Corps not playing "recognizable" music as I've heard from others, one of the things I loved about Drum Corps was the opportunity to hear a piece I've never heard before and if I liked it go and search out the original source. It had nothing to do with the over-the-top choregraphy and dancing of some guards/Corps, I was always more of a listener than a watcher when it came to Drum Corps anyway. It had nothing to do with the changes in instrumentation, as long as it was done within the framework of remaining acoustic. It was simply one reason and one reason only: the excitement or "goose-bump" factor which was once a given when I went to a show no longer seemed to be there, with few exceptions. Now I'm not smart enough to go into why or how show design/arrangement got to where it is today, all I know is that the feeling of boredom at a Drum Corps show was one I never thought I'd experience but became all too familiar and certainly too frequent. Can I explain why there have been shows that give you that uncontrollable urge to leap to your feet (95 Madison comes to mind) and others that cause you to give obligatory applause, only after sitting on your hands for the entire show? Nope, and don't think I have to. The only other thing I'll add is that I find it remarkable reading a quote from George Hopkins saying he isn't a "fan" of Drum Corps, kind of makes the argument of fans being discounted more plausible. I really wonder what someone like Scott Stewarts answer to that same question would be, I think I already know the answer to that one.

This statement got me thinking - where exactly has Drum Corps (DCI in particular) gotten by moving closer to the band world? How big could Drum Corps have been if this wasn't the case and in the process not alienated countless Drum Corps fans? When I first got involved with Drum Corps back in 1980 it seems to me that it was the marching bands who were striving to be more like Drum Corps, maybe not so much in regards to equipment but certainly in creativity and show design done WITHIN the guidelines of brass and percussion as an acoustic activity. Well, now that that's gone (for good I'm afraid), why not open it up for "anything goes"? Seriously, I have to think that the majority of any loyal fan base created from the time of Corps being acoustic are long gone (myself included) so why not cater to the marching band crowd? Actually the whole thing is pretty sad in my opinion, merging two unique activities into one. You really have to wonder just how many fans would have stuck with Drum Corps thru the years if this "merger" wasn't happening (to be honest I think it's already happened). Let me put it another way - I can honestly say that hardly anyone I knew from when I started in Corps, either as a fellow marcher or as a spectator, was a fan of both marching bands and Drum Corps. At least you had a choice as to which one floated your boat, not so much anymore. And please stop using the tired argument that it's just a bunch of dinosaurs that can't accept change and who think ANY change is a bad thing. Everyone has thier "line in the sand" so to speak when it comes to just how many and what type of changes are made, mine just happened to be when the acoustic aspect was taken away and a truly unique idiom ceased to exist. And yes, I do realize that the activity exists primarily for the sake of the marching members, but to discount the value of fans in an audience driven "sport" (DCI's wording, not mine) is ludicrous and self-defeating at best. Thank God for CD's!!!

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NORTH STAR!!! I watched today's clip about 20 times, one of my first memories of Drum Corps was watching this show. Gotta love North Star, who could forget that soloist, never mind the "chrome-wall" snareline. I think I'm going to have to go watch the DVD!

Would love to see a clip of the guy from 79 North Star during "Ole" - I had a chance to meet Maynard Ferguson back in 96 and when I asked him about his experience of doing the broadcast that year even he remembered that solo!

Tried this about a year ago, haven't received an answer so I figure why not try again. Sorry to single you out MikeD, but I'll ask the question again - why do you want to turn Drum Corps into marching band?

Might be the funniest (true) thing I've heard in quite awhile

It looks like Sunday is when I'm heading over, just found out that's when the Bridgemen are showing up!

Yeah, I actually just moved to Allentown last October and I've been over to the stadium about 10 times since trying to figure out the best place to park and have come up with the same thing as you. I'll probably just park at the Giant shopping center down the road and walk up, I'm just hoping the Corps still warm-up down in the park. This will be the first time going to Allentown for me since 1985, it was kind of cool just driving around the stadium, brought back alot of memories. I can't lie, I'm mainly going to see the Bridgemen and hopefully run into some people I haven't seen for 22 years, but I am curious to see what the Corps are doing now. Haven't seen a show since the "changes" in the last few years, last show I saw was 2003, should be interesting.

Lets not forget the fantastic straight-ahead jazz show from the Devils, Madison playing "Malaquena" and "Through the eyes of love" and one hell of a rifle line, Vanguard playing one of the finest if not most influential drum solos ever, "Stone Ground Seven", Crossmen - wicked soloists AND Superman!!

Ditto!! And by the way, 84 Blue Devils is usually the first thing I'll play when introducing someone to Drum Corps, good Lord that Corps could play!! Hands down the most intense version of "La Fiesta" ever put on a football field! I'll usually follow that up with a little 82 or 95 Madison, 89 or 03 Phantom, 74 or 85 Hawthorne (Muchachos and Cabs), 04 Cavies, 04 SCV, 84 Cadets and finish off with 2000 Blue Devils, my second favorite Devils show. If at that point they haven't run into the next room screaming or punched me in the face we just might slip in some 77 Bridgemen or 92 VK just for fun!!

Great job, thanks! I gotta tell ya, I'm really loving the "all green" look! As long as they're wearing spats you've got my vote! Now, if I only had a vote that would be something, but it's a pretty sharp look and certainly says "Scouts" to me!

I like it, but I was wondering if anyone's come up with a "modern" version of the all-green uni of the pre '83 Corps. You had to love the look the Scouts had those years, there's something to be said for the all dark uniforms, if you were able to come up with something like that I'd love to see your take. Great job on this one by the way.

1981 27th - Crown Imperial, New Country (when they actually played drum solos!), Niner Two, Greatest Love of All AND Danny Boy? 'Nuff said!!! Oh, I'd also get to wear spats! b**bs