scheherazadesghost

And don't get me wrong, this potentiality really really stinks. But as I argued earlier in this thread, the adverse affects of a false accusation are not the same as denying a victim who is telling the truth. Not by a long shot in most cases, based on statistical and all available qualitative data.

Asking v-s's to have made the right choice to correct the violations or protect others verges on victim blaming... or at very least contributes to its normalization. We are often not in the state of mind, nor do we have the capacity or social support to always do this. Educational spaces should know this and take it upon themselves to respond accordingly to accusations. Culpability (not legal, but actual.) I'll leave this here for further reading: https://www.sace.ca/learn/victim-blaming/

For the uninitiated, these are sympathetic nervous system responses to traumatic experiences. There is a vast amount of literature here. They include fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. They are involuntary. It has been argued that overtraining, as is so common in drum corps, can keep vulnerable people in this state constantly, and that's before an actual trauma happens.

Hi HD. Thanks for letting me know of your interest and gratitude. This work is endless, it seems, so I'm glad you find what I've written informative. This incident hit me really hard so I've spent time calculating an adequate response to your comment. I'm still going to screen shot it because I never know when what I'll say will be deleted. First, supporting victim-survivors (v-s's moving forward.) My approach is firmly grounded in my work in youth safeguarding, which started in earnest in 2016 when, after having worked in the fields of drum corps and dance for over a decade, a minor-age student of mine disclosed abuse to me for the first time in my career. How had I gone 10+ years in youth arts education and not known immediately what to do? How common is this situation among arts education pros? My drum corps had failed me on that front. My undergraduate education had failed me. My graduate education had failed me. All in arts education. Only months before that my professional predecessor had warned me, hey, you may want to do this training on mandated reporting and youth safeguarding. I should've listened. So, after the student disclosed, I researched the heck out of mandated reporting overnight and took immediate steps. While that situation settled among proper authorities and parties, I took the 20+ hr training that had been recommended to me by my predecessor. Until you've really sat down and listened to hours of survivors (verified by court cases) tell stories of how their lives were forever changed by abuse, you can't possibly be prepped for how to support them adequately. Period. That said, there are all kinds of resources out there (even for law enforcement) about "victim-centric" approaches that minimize re-traumatization of v-s's. That's a good place to start. The training I took is called Darkness2Light. I've since studied consent, mental health triage, trauma and the body, and other related fields as a part of my safeguarding work with youth and other vulnerable populations. Our society's capacity for and literacy of such matters is so dangerously low it's no wonder we throw our hands up and say IDK what to do! Second, innocence until proven guilty. False accusations are a thing, and they're very sad as they turn the accused into the victim. Folks in this thread have spoken to some of their experiences, as well they should. And... I think I've alluded to the fact that rape culture and biases among the investigative processes we use throughout society to navigate accusations like this are profoundly flawed. If we look at the system in drum corps alone as a whole, it's clear that this approach isn't working for v-s's or for fast, effective improvements. Also, as redditors are pointing out, drum corps are private organizations, not courts of law. Additionally, please weigh the realities here, I beg you. Someone who is falsely accused can have similar disruptions to life as a v-s of abuse that has been ignored, not believed, or silenced, BUT they do not also have the same adverse outcomes overall as far as my lived experience tells me. Look at the statistics for adverse outcomes of v-s's. They are incredibly, deathly serious and often firmly psycho-somatic, and not always cognitively manageable for the v-s. They are not limited to character assassination, loss of job-profession, or dismissal from a group. They are often these things AND debilitating mental health or physical health issues that can last a lifetime. So, apologies to those who have been falsely accused, but the outcomes for v-s's are quite unbearable. And I've endured them myself. So I'll almost always side with them first. If it is discovered that I've been misled (by any of the DOZEN+ victims I've spoken to directly or others) I'll be the first to say so, recount my steps, and do what I can to right any wrong I've contributed to. Can they be done at the same time? Well, certainly not by most the professionals currently employed by the drum corps activity entrusted with safeguarding young people. Can we agree on that? How many more times to v-s's have to step forward publicly risking more than others can know? How many more need to hit up my inbox? How many more grown adults will I need to sit and weep with before we are believed, honored, trusted, and listened to? The current paradigm is set up to protect itself by and large, not the v-s's. Period. My best immediate solution is for all young people and adults alike to step up their safeguarding game. 'Cause most of the adults in the room aren't qualified to do so and have failed young people for decades. Know the signs of abusers, they're well documented. Know the basic steps that orgs and individuals can take to make those signs easier to spot. Know how and where to report and if it's unclear, don't stop asking until you get an answer that makes you feel safe. Know the resources for survivors. Know how to listen to people in vulnerable positions. Take the Keanu Reeves approach and apply it across your professional/collegiate/recreational relationships or wherever else you see fit. Know and accept what consent actually means. There are never easy solutions in these situations. You'll note I haven't spoken directly to this situation because even as an advocate and direct supporter of v-s's, my job isn't to tell you where anyone went wrong and what should be done when I don't have the whole story and probably never will. My job is to listen, using my lived experience and professional expertise. My job is to connect the dots between the stories and highlight what I can for others to help drive change. My job is to ask what v-s's what they need and do everything I can to support them. It's my responsibility at this point. 'Cause sadly, I see very few professionals in the activity with the eyes to see what I see and the audacity to say what I say. I had to leave drum corps to get that freedom. Otherwise, they'd still hold the fear of retaliation over me as they continue to do for so many other v-s's.

Yes. Agreed. Some significant culpability is with the corps. Edit to add: Don't be confused, you goofs. @jwillis35 said "my response is what are these corps teaching them?" Indicating, as far as I understand it, that he believes that corps have some responsibility to guide young minds' understanding of consent (as SoA does), reporting channels, as well as the rights and responsibilities to each other. That is culpability. Also, if you're going to be honestly confused, then ask a question. Otherwise, well, you're not contributing much to a very serious dialogue. Okay, I'll break this down further. As I've indicated throughout this thread, I'm not using the legal definition of culpable here, but the actual textbook one: "responsibility for a fault or wrong; blame." When you are an educator/admin of youth, you have a duty to protect or, in the very least, a duty to respond effectively after a failure. SoA's manual alone, which I doubt the confused have read in full as I have, indicates they know this because they dip into consent education. And consent education in youth settings requires constant reinforcement of corps principles by qualified educators to begin to seep in. There was a seises of failures here, for which corps are, in part, responsible or "culpable." I'm concerned that those trying to minimize corps responsibility in cases like these continue to fail to understand the youth education and protection part of corps' duties. We victim-survivors do not.

I really, really appreciate your thorough response. My only thought here is that a victim centric approach would instead read: "The victim may not have had the capacity to do this a year ago. They may not have known what to do, understood what happened to them, had appropriate support systems, or evidence, or they feared retaliation. Had they been able to step forward..."

So long as we can advance this conversation without talk of threats I will respond. I have not rubber stamped anything. I'm taking a victim-centric stance, which is one that has standing across multiple disciplines. It is not the innocent until proven guilty stance, intentionally, because such a stance often leaves victims in the dust. I've also pointed out flaws in nearly all investigatory processes available here, which has not been addressed by you, but respectfully by @IllianaLancerContra and @KVG_DC, to which I responded, also respectfully. I will acquiesce to say that equally, the worst outcome is both an innocent is accused and put through the ringer AND victims remain unheard. I've never not believed that, but assumptions can easily made by those who don't understand what a victim-centric approach is. I will always land on the side of victim-survivors. Always. My first priority has been for organizations to do due diligence and research into victim-centric approaches and investigatory procedure. Perhaps doing so might actually move the needle, unlike everything else has been tried so far.

That's all good. No question. Not all victim-survivors have such support systems or the capacity to even speak to their experiences enough to be taken seriously. I'm looking out for the absolutely most vulnerable.

Whoa. Perhaps I should've said disagree. I'm not trying to escalate here, but rather stand firmly on my own two feet as a victim-survivor of abuse in the activity myself who has supported other victim-survivors for the last two years. That was not a threat. It was intended as a "universal you" because silencing, ignoring, and disagreeing with victim-survivors is what has gotten the activity to the current state it's in. Doing so risks perpetuating the worst outcome. I don't know you. I don't want to know you. And I don't escalate discussions online or in person interactions in that way ever. I won't be responding to you further.

We won't agree here. Ignore victim-survivors at your own risk.

We can disagree on nuances here. Lived experience should not be ignored, nor the legacy of predators and enablers in this activity who cover for each other rather than ever being held responsible. As I've said, I'm actively supporting victim-survivors right now. I know what it means to be cautious in these cases. Otherwise, I would've spilled the beans on a regular basis for the last two years when the stories started piling into my inbox.

No one magically becomes a master of consent at 18, law aside because the law has failed to protect historically in drum corps. Youth education organizations are rresponsible for the cultures and protocols that members are locked into, without respite, all summer long.

I've spoken to many who volunteered to disclose their stories to me. They were all in various states of response to what they endured. So sure, but as an advocate and supporter, "not always" is still too risky to build policy on processes upon. There are all kinds of victim-survivor-centric models out there. Drum corps don't have to reinvent the wheel. They do have to begin with due diligence and research though.

SoA now has the strongest policies regarding consent and rooming. They've been publicly available since before the season started. And yes, while an investigation can totally do what @KVG_DC is suggesting... it is still at the expense of the victim-survivor always. That harsh reality is not good for us for so many reasons.

There is not a single organization, corps or DCI, that I trust to do this without re-traumatizing victim-survivors. I have definitely been re-traumatized by both my corps admin and DCI. Even though I fully understand liability in cases like these. ...even the US Center for SafeSport has serious problems and the gymnasts who stepped forward about abuse completely don't trust it. Maybe the police with jurisdiction over the location of the event... but even they, while capable of conducting an investigation, are flawed and are definitely likely to re-traumatize. Survivor-victims often only resort to stepping forward publicly when nothing else has worked. Often at great risk to their safety and mental health. Investigations can exacerbate that, and often do. Much support is needed here.

I appreciate your sharing this news with us. Things only have a shot at changing when victim-survivors step forward AND are supported by the community. The former without the latter is re-traumatizing, at the very least. Some resources for victim-survivors include MAASIN, The Army of Survivors, and the Courage First Athletes Helpline. The US Center for SafeSport does not have jurisdiction over DCI at least check, but might be a viable resource if others fail. 988 is the national mental health crisis line. I provide these just in case the victim-survivor involved OR others need them in response to this news. And finally, always go to the police who have jurisdiction over the location of the event. As soon as possible.

We were overworked and under rested. Not that that's unique to our era or corps, but we simply didn't have the time to care about other corps even if we wanted to. Achieving new heights also wasn't on the radar of the members, it was in our name and baked into the whole deal 24/7. Honestly, we all just wanted/ needed to sleep more than anything else. Can't set new standards if everyone else is resting more than you.

Mandies Cavies SoA No particular order.

I preferred ignoring the rest and doing the best I could. That said, our drumline seemed to have a lot of fun leading the pack and defending that lead one of those years. Still, they mostly ignored the others from what I could tell. It was fun to witness JONZ in that position so close up. And it was all we, in other captions, could do not to completely hold them back.

Or perhaps, just perhaps, I simply don't want to discuss anything related to the pandemic with you and realized I should've never brought it up. 🤷🏽‍♀️

One of my first compliments for Mandies was for the old ones. So yeah, I love when a corps adds what seems to be a relatively small flair that makes what was already good pop! It shows maturity of design. In short, I love them. Would've loved to have spun those flags! It would've made me excited every show to unravel and spin them for the audience. Things like that help turn a strong performance into a swagger.

I hear you. But my unique experience in this activity leads me to believe that this unique combo is quite culpable.

Ick. This was a dialogue and I was simply highlighting the elation that others have relayed to me about the non-competitive nature of the 2021 season. I don't make sweeping comments about the future of the activity ever because most interactions I have with fans and professionals in this activity are disheartening at best. Please forget I said anything 'cause I don't want to argue with you about the future of the activity. I literally said "one could make the argument" instead of saying "you're wrong and here's why" for this very reason. Weird how some are so focused on being right or wrong in a competitive activity.... No, I don't remember that season. I prolly wasn't there. And I don't care about recaps nearly that much.

... and what drives adult staffs to continue to push young members beyond their limits, IMHO, because I've experienced it firsthand. It always comes down to safeguarding with me. And competition is a major driver for risky decisions in tandem with the push for excellence.

I wish I'd been around to behold it. 😭