fifer

I think what was important in the article but seems to have been overlooked (it was later in the same quote about the drum book being nearly complete) was the following: "...the May Preview in 3 weeks stands to give the audience the earliest and fullest glimpse of a Crusaders show yet." So if they did so well last year and will have a more complete show on the field earlier this year, we probably don't need to worry just yet about the nearly complete drum book!

With the edge to the Cavies guard outfits since Y2K, I could see them giving this a try (that way something could top the tight biker outfit for most outrageous). After all, didn't Lady GaGa get her spinning metal cage outfit idea from the Cavies' Planets show?

I say 99 as well. While I was impressed with all the gymnastics of the 2009 guard, in addition to a lot less ensemble work, there was (IMHO) too much "take a while to move to a formation, do ONE big throw, take a while to move to the next formation, do one big throw, repeat."

Very aggressive - sounds to me like School for Scandal might be the battle scene for the Toy Souldiers (title of Cadets show for those who have not read the other thread)!

While it does sound like the horns and battery are being given more challenging parts and continue to improve over the years, so far (based on these four clips alone) this music seems to be taking a step back from prior years as far as melody is concerned, IMHO. Rhythmically it is very "driving" but melodically it is just the typical modern drum corps whole notes followed by running parts, followed by whole notes building to a crescendo. Hopefully there will be more hummable melodies in other sections of the show. Note, I have not heard the fifth clip yet, so keep your panties from bunching up if you intend to reply to my comments based on that clip.

Funny - the results so far indicate that the average SO just likes or is tolerant of drum corps but is, on the average, dragged kicking and screaming to almost as many shows per year as the fanatic!!

I've been wondering for a while if this year's show will have a "Babes in Toyland" kind of theme to it and now they are actually playing that march!!! But are these all show tunes? Hop's blog only calls them "Cadets Tunes". Are any just for parades and/or encores?

One would hope that to be the case but the "professionals" also know all the tricks to phrase the question to make the "accurate sampling" yield the desired results. You know, the good old practice of asking questions like "have you stopped beating your wife" with the only optional responses being yes or no. But then, we've seen lots of polls like that on DCP as well (and usually regarding the most controversial issues like woodwinds, amps, electronics and George Hopkins).

True that - but all too often people give a "your favorite" answer to a "the best" question. And as much as we can ONLY trust the results of THIS poll to be 25% educated opinion, I'm amazed that the results average wasn't about 50%. It just sounds a lot of the time in here that people use the DCP polls to support and defend various opinions.

Gee, I'm surprised nobody voted for root beer!!

The recent “best of” polls got me wondering how much of each vote is based on unbiased, thoughtful recollection of the actual performances in question versus how much of each vote is based on personal opinion of the shows in question, personalities involved with the corps, styles of music performed, personal corps affiliation, etc. We question, at times, whether judges can be unbiased and hope that their training makes them able to look beyond personal preferences in determining a score. On the other hand, most of us on DCP are not trained to look at things so dispassionately and impartially as is expected from the judging community. So, on an average, what percent of each vote on the typical DCP Poll do you think is based on personal preferences versus educated, unbiased opinions? How much stock do you put in DCP Poll results?

So let's give the judges little red flags to throw when they want the action in a corps' performance to halt so they can chat about it!

But a field judge cannot see the entire field most of the time. So if a field judge catches something out of the corner of her/his eyes then she/he might want to confer with someone else to better understand what the field judge thought she/he saw and whether or not it had a significant impact on the performance and, therefore, if or how much it should affect the score. Again, it would be solely a call for the field judge, in this example, to ask for the confab. I'm certainly not defending this as the best idea to help improve impartiality in scoring or whatever else they hope this will do. But if they are going to try it, something closer to what I suggested seems like it would work better than just giving the "judge chairman" the sole right to confer with any judge that chairman disagrees with.

Maybe they can adopt an amended version of the EU practice and have the "judge chairman" availble to confer on a score only IF a specific judge feels he/she needs a second set of eyes/ears. Sort of like how one ref might get a bad view angle on a possible foul and want to confer with another ref before making the call. But if that ref/judge feels confident in the foul/score, then no confab is required. In addition, the "judge chairman" can be responsible to review final scores/recaps at the end of the night (before the judges get released for the day) to determine if anything looks "out of line" (could be tricky setting guidelines on this). Then, there could be a discussion that same evening with the judge in question. This might reveal a more productive conversation than waiting until a corps files a complaint against that judge/score. Then at least the "judge chairman" and the judge in question are discussing the strengths and weaknesses of the performance (and score it deserved) immediately after having seen that same performance.

Thanks for the info Grumpy! Unfortunately, I don't check out the DCA discussions half as much as I should.

Yes, but it sounds like the walls of LOS turn it into a sauna during the day even if it isn't that hot out. Even with the window wall open, air does not circulate well in that box without the AC running. I'd be willing to bet that the excessive temperatures on the field with an open roof at 2pm (for example) would be more of an unfair disadvantage for those corps than any benefit the later groups might get from any improvement to sound from the roof being open.

I didn't know about the Rochester Crusaders; sad to hear. And the Patriots have never been able to come back in that area either. I really miss them - they had some great guards (and corps too).

This is a direct quote from the announcement on DCA's site: "While the Brigadiers maintain a dedicated nucleus of talented performers, this difficult decision was made due to unsuccessful attempts to recruit additional members to make 2010 a productive season."

I laughed so much that I passed gas! But maybe you have an idea there ... having the entire audience pass gas at the same time in LOS may be the answer to getting finals moved back outside where it belongs!

Well, that's what's happened over in DCA-land (Brigadiers, last year's 7th place corps, can't recruit enough members to field a competitive corps in 2010). Now if this happened to the Boston Crusaders (or any corps in the DCI top 12), we'd hear tons of people complain about and blame DCI, the national tour, the cost of amps and synths, modern show design, dancing/effeminate guards, etc. Not saying that everything is perfect over in DCI-ville, but it sounds like DCA isn't paradise either. Both have to deal with the harsh realities of life, the economy, people's changing interests, difficulty gaining local attention/support, etc. etc. etc. Both have to deal with the harsh reality that a corps that placed 7th in last year's t finals might not be able to field a competitive corps the next year. I wish the Brigadiers well and hope they can return to the competitive field as a full DCA corps in 2011. The moral of the story: let's try to help one another a little bit more in the future rather than being so "my organization (DCI, DCA, SDCA, BOA, WGI, etc.) is better than yours" all the time.

And it ain't free for ANY group that offers no cost or low cost community services. Why do you question where YEA! funds come from but not question where funds to keep costs low for each SDCA corps comes from? What do you conisder "acceptable" sources of funding for community service groups? Do they differ for groups that you support versus groups that you seem (reading between the lines) to have an issue with? So, on one hand it sounds like you are trying to support the efforts of "community service" groups while on the other hand you have done nothing but try to shed a questionable light on this work by YEA! If you truly want to know where they get their funding, then ask them. You will find that it comes from a combination of sources just like any other community service group (donations, grants, fund raisers, foundations, etc.). Why have you not been able to bring yourself to even ackowledge the fact that YEA! IS offering some of the community service opportunities that you seem to be promoting through this thread? You may want to conisder the advice of another poster who suggested you do a little "looking within". Since you have already restated your point about community service versus high quality performance groups several times (and nobody has disagreed with that initial point), I remain at a loss to understand what other point you are trying to discuss here.

And YEA! moved to Allentown in 2005 - shame on them for not being a household name in the area by now - [sarcasm] they've had an entire five years!! [/sarcasm] Just because they are not being discussed when your neighbors sit down for a glass of wine does not diminish the work they are doing. And I'm sure they will agree with you that more effort is needed, but they can only do so much with limited funds and resources. Maybe you can stop over and offer to volunteer - put your words into action. Here are some of the current oppotuntities for you to get involved: Urban Arts Center (umbrella under which the following opportunities exist): Xcape Dance Troupe GOALS: Xcape's stated goal is "to provide a positive alternative to the streets for the youth in one of Allentown's most at risk districts." The program is FREE for those in the Allentown School District. Lehigh Valley Youth Drumline Youth Education in the Arts is proud to continue this locally-based youth program to develop life skills through musical performance. The goal of this group is to provide young students with a positive and FUN first experience in a marching ensemble. Cost: Free Community Hand Drumming Program WHO CAN JOIN: Any South Mountain Middle School student or their families COST: FREE! No experience necessary! The project is an opportunity to enjoy a group activity with friends and neighbors. It is a family-friendly event and open to all ages. While an extreme comment, this is my issue with this discussion from the start. While there has been an effort to say both types of groups should exist for thier own purposes, there has been a clear undercurrent that the goals of the "community service" groups is better than (and should be held in higher esteme than) the "high quality performance" groups. But the issue is that the "high quality performance" groups do not exists solely for the "able to pay" members to have the best learning experience with the resulting improved performance quality. About every DCI corps that I am aware of places numerous things above the goal of achieving "high quality" performances. Every corps (as evidenced by comments on here alone from former members) places the development of the individual as one of their highest priorities. How is this a lesser goal than taking kids off the street and giving them a healthy, free acvtivity to participate in? And what about all the music teachers out there who learned many life skills in DCI corps and are now teaching the same life lessons in their classrooms? So, great observation Stu, we all agree that it is extremely rare to find organizations (DCI, SDCA, other community groups, etc.) that can afford to offer both the free, kids-off-the-street opportunity and the high quality performance experience. Sounds like there was never really anythng to discuss here, so this thread can now be closed.

I'm getting the feeling that you support SDCA over DCI and wonder if you truly think both "types" of groups should happily co-exist for the purposes you first stated in your post. Anyway, thanks to those who understood what I originally wrote. So, you are correct in that YEA! does not offer a single organization that can afford offer both the $2000+ experience and the under $200 price tag. However, they have established a model that can afford to support both extremes (and quite a few of the shards of gray in between) with music education and life changing experiences. Maybe more drum corps should have "sister" community organizations - then maybe we'd also see more of that "local" connection returning to corps.

YEA! is combining it quite well between The Cadets, its marching band circuit, and three Allentown area free community service performance groups. DCI has been developing an aliance with BOA recently. Maybe DCI should also look to ally with some community service performance organization(s) since it would probably be cost prohibitive to start their own. Any possibilty of DCI and SDCA collaborating?

LOL I love uninformative drive-by comments.