Medeabrass

ahhh so the difference being Star was doing it as a stick height thing because the music called for it while true "monkey drumming" is more of a visual thing.

I've been hoping for a piccolo trumpet line for sometime or atleast a pic feature at some point in a show.

After seeing the scores last night I thought "no way," but after looking at recaps today, I actually see a very slight possibility for Crown. The fact that Crown was 1st in brass and BD was 3rd leads me to believe that they may be able to stretch this spread a little more. I think even though visual is their "weakness," I think their colorguard could easily move up to second. I could see their drums moving into second or third. They have legitimate shots of winning GE music, Brass, and Ensemble Music. If they can widen the brass gap and bring up the other captions then there's a small chance. If BD takes anything less than second in a couple of captions that would help too. Of course, I think it all boils down to Crown getting their "ideal" judge lineup finals night and having the performance of a lifetime.

When I was in the Aggie Band, the Colonel used to say in a nice Texan drawl, "NOBODY BREAKS RANK! Instruments can be repaired!!!" There were several camera men at parades and half time shows at bowl games (yes, we actually used to go to bowl games lol) who learned this the hard way...still makes me laugh. When I was in Star, we would just stick our horns out and ask them to go around. If they persisted, they'd get "nudged" out of the way. Why can't people simply respect a corps rank after being asked to have some patience and wait?

ha haa...i'm sick of that too...One of my least favorite moves is a cousin to this...it's when they all get finished playing an easy lick (usually it's quite dirty) and then they point and "taunt" and leg kick to the audience trying to goade them into applause...how 'bout you just do something bad arse, act like the most difficult move in the world was quite easy, and let me decide if I want to throw infants or not. SCV does it the right way all the time.

Star started doing it in '93

You can't tell the difference between the technique of Phantom and Crown? Similar in some respects (building from the bottom) but very different in approach in so many other critical ways.

It's relevant in the context of the "innovation" side-conversation that's going on here. The first time a corps played jazz on the field (don't know who this was), it was innovative because no one had thought of or had the ballz to attempt it before. There are many examples of innovation throughout dci that are based solely on the music a corps decided to play. All you have to do is look at the trends in repertoires used before said innovation and after to get an idea what an impact the supposed innovation has had on the activity. Not to toot my own horn, but I think Star's decision to play Medea in '93 opened the minds (for better or worse) of many staffs as to what was possible on the field. I mean, Bartok in drum corps? Nuts! Same goes for Garfield's music selections in the early '80's.

Honestly Karen, I haven't seen much innovation by anyone in the projected top 5. Cadets, rehash (doesn't bother me). BD, I've seen them sit on props before. SCV, rehash of Cadets '87 (still love it btw). Much of Crown's music hasn't been attempted before but I know what you mean as far as innovation. On a side note (and maybe this should be it's own subject), what will corps have to do next in order to be innovative? There are wow moments and new gimmicks almost every year but true "activity changing" innovation seems to be harder and harder to come by. Sometimes it almost seems that corps try too hard to be innovative and different and instead come off as silly. As Karen alluded to, there is a very fine line between innovation and irrelevance. As mentioned before, Cadets did some things in '82 that were considered out there for the time or atleast stressed certain elements more such as asymmetric drill. '87 Garfield and their focus on dance and expressive movement was a big deal. Star '93 was pretty different and kind of took the expressive movement stuff to another level. Cavies in the early 00's with their stressing of music to fit the movement was activity changing as well. What's next? (and no I'm not talking about rule changes)

I didn't know that singing into a mic was banned. I just figured that it was so obvious that it didn't work so most corps decided to avoid it. I seem to remember that when mics were legalized we also saw a lot more of the "narration." That fad has run it's course and now we only see it used sparingly. So if woodwinds aren't cost prohibitive, you imply that there is another reason we don't have them on the field then. What is that reason? Honestly, I don't care to fret over it. I'll deal with my reaction to it when/if it arrives but I'm just going to enjoy what today has to offer in the mean time. Petitions, hate mail to Hopkins, and gnashing of teeth on dcp have not stopped the other changes. I can live with this new crap for now...I'll burn the bridge of oboes and bassoons when/if I'm forced to consider it. And I still hold to my premise that woodwinds would be too expensive. You would have to either decrease your membership in other captions (something I don't think you would ever see) or increase DC membership to say 200 people...not going to happen. And yes, woodwinds are too expensive for too little payoff. What do you suggest we do in order to keep woodwinds out of the activity anyways?

another one of the classic DCP debates...I've never seen a BOA event but I'd say that bands are either trying to emulate drum corps and thus the similarities or it might be that a lot of people who teach in drum corps also happen to teach highschool band and thus the similarities. Woodwinds would be too expensive and would be proven to be too prone to withering under the wear and tear of a drum corps summer to ever realistically make it on the DC field. Drum corps have been singing on the field for decades so I guess we missed the boat on the choir thing.

I would say that a big problem is this year is just one of those bleh years. I (and maybe I'm just filled with wishful/naive thinking) think the past 3-4 years leading up to this year were much more entertaining than the early 2000's. I felt that lyrical arrangements (ie complete musical ideas) were being rewarded again. I understand that you may not be getting those "holy shiznitch" moments from MOST corps, but I thought the impulsive/visceral response of the crowd to Phantom last year was reminiscent of crowd reactions to some of the most beloved shows of the past. The fact that a show like that could actually win in this day and age is a very good thing. I say this because corps tend to move toward whatever is being rewarded. When constructing the music to fit the visual (ie motif driven instead of melody driven music) was getting rewarded, we saw a good percentage of the corps move in that direction. Now, I think melody is being rewarded or is at least being given a fighting chance. Again, I think this year just happens to be one of those down years design-wise. I think the trend toward melody is still intact but the shows just seem a little flat. Next year, I'll be curious to see if this year turns out to be a trend or a blip. As to why so many corps sound the same, well, that may have to do with the fact that staffs seem to be a lot more transient than they used to be. I mean, who would've ever thought that a BD caption head would be teaching at Cadets? I totally agree with you man and you reminded me of something I've been meaning to ask. Does anyone know what reaction the OLD old timers had the first time a drum corps dared to play jazz on the field? How 'bout the first time they dared to play something other than a march? I've got a feeling crossing these two lines were probably sacrilege at some point. Anybody have grandparents out there who can answer this one for me?

I think hornlines were louder back in the day...even if you compare early 90's to today. Some of the hornlines of the past could put out more volume because they didn't mind going past the point where the instrument starts to get crass...I'm not trying to make a value judgment with that term but it's the only one I could think of. Bugles tended to project more cuz, well, that's what they were designed to do. Today there seems to be a tendency to try to stop short of becoming crass when it comes to projecting volume...again, I'm not trying to assign a value pro or con...just trying to clarify.

No I wouldn't say they're sucking on their horns. I'm pretty sure it's just the approach their brass staff is taking in addition to the fact that they aren't playing bugles.

Blue Devils maybe? Now I'm thinking Crown and Cadets were lucky to have gotten it as early as they did. It could devastating for a corps to go through this a week from now.

Visual judges don't even care if you're in step anymore as long as the form looks good. Quoting scores isn't saying anything and it's nothing new. Look at Cadets '93...outta step and dudes bouncing all over the place. They still took second in field vis and first in ensemble.

My big problem is, why can't these people ever mention a piece that they would like to hear? They usually can't think of any. I personally don't think earlier attendees were Joe Bobs either but that's what comes to mind when people make the "regular people" remark and show contempt for those who actually study music...(and alas, maybe I still harbor some contempt for a certain segment of the audience who thinks it's within their right to shout certain things at the participants.) He does imply that "regular people" don't have a wide knowledge of music however. I would probably put myself in this group but somehow I'm able to appreciate music I've never heard before. In fact, for every one of our favorite songs there had to be a "first listen." Why can't that be on the drum corps field? I won't disagree that earlier shows may have had more mass appeal, but I think the average joe decades ago had a bigger appreciation for wind instruments than average joe of today. I just don't get how ones appreciation has to be so narrow as to throw the baby out with the bath water though. In all honesty, the whole argument is like a parent and teenager arguing over who's generation of music was better. Of course people are going to favor the generation in which they grew up in. I prefer late 80's early 90's DC but that doesn't preclude me from enjoying today's activity or DCs from before that time...that's just me of course.

I agree with you too. I am no homer when it comes to today's shows. I have problems with the synths and how it lessons the need for an arranger to do some creative and fun things in their books, but I do believe these things will be worked out. There always seems to be some overkill and adjustment periods after corps get their "new toys." It took a long time for them to figure out how to do instrumentation of the Bb's after the switch. Remember all the horrendous over use of mics on the field? We're still struggling with pit amping but I think they are figuring out how to make the pit blend into the ensemble. I believe we'll see the same thing with the synth. Again, I could live without any of these new toys, but I still allow myself to enjoy what's going on despite the occasional annoyance. I also feel like this year's shows are a little bit of a step back from the last 3 years or so (last year was a particularly hard year to follow IMO) but I think we've been extremely blessed with an over abundance of great shows and it was only a matter of time till we had a collective "flat year." As far as I can tell, that's one thing that's remained consistent in the activity.

wow...what an amazing call. Go to Vegas much?

Ugggh...the cliche DCP thread of old school versus new...oh well, you trolled me in and I'm taking the bait. Just a question, "back in the day" did drum corps not compete since they were in the business of "entertaining?" Obviously, if corps these days are only aiming to the judges and not the audience then they must not have cared about the competition in your "golden era." Also, it sounds like you're saying "regular people" don't have a very wide range of music that they know. If this is the case, then wouldn't it logically follow that corps would have to play the same music over and over again so that "regular people" know what's going on? If a corps wanted to change things up a little and attempt to play something new WHILE keeping regular people in the know, then they would have to branch out into pop music to find new AND original source music. What would be average joe's response to Vanguard playing Lady Gaga's "Disco Stick?" Puke I imagine. This is a serious question, are there any pieces that have never been played on the drum corps field that you would like to hear? Can you think of one? This is what I find so disingenuous about most (not all) people with your complaint. You want them to play music that you recognize, yet you can't think of any that have never been played before. If you wanna hear the same thing over and over again, I suggest you get some of the historical DVDs...I'm dead serious! How do you know that the people in the stadium were only parents and students? What's wrong with that? How do you know that "back in the day," most of the people in the audience had no musical background or a tie to the activity? Could it be that society ie "regular people" have passed drum corps by and not the other way around? Could it be that the crops of joe bobs that have come after you will never appreciate any kind of music produced from a wind instrument? The days of big bands topping the charts are long gone and so is the appreciation for wind instruments from the general public. If corps followed your narrow prescription for acceptability, then I and many others never would've been introduced to music such as Belshazzar's Feast or New World Symphony or Firebird Suite or Candide. Seriously, what empirical process do you suggest corps use in order to select their music in the off season? Have gallop conduct a poll of Joe Bob double-wide to see which pieces of music he recognizes? Do we really have to go to the lowest common denominator of taste? To be fair, in and ideal world there should be balance but how do you mandate that balance? Do the judges sheets need to have a recognizability caption? Going back to the tick system isn't going to force corps to select more enjoyable music. They may slow it down for you but they're still going to make an attempt to do something original (ie play music that hasn't been performed by a DC before). I'm sorry but you old schoolers used to boo and chastise my corps for playing American patriotic music! "Play something we know" was heard from the audience on a few occasions when we marched out for the encore. I call BS. I do agree that some arrangers do go waaay too far out of their way to make some "recognizable" pieces almost unrecognizable and unlyrical. I for one don't like this either, but I think if you've been following the activity closely over the last 8 years or so you will see that the tide is turning back towards more lyrical and literal interpretations of the original music. There are some things about drum corps that I don't like but I recognize that some of these things are fads and will cycle themselves through. On other occasions I've learned to expand my appreciation. Throw the baby out with the bath water if you choose to...that's fine...there will be some other band student (which you seem to have contempt for) who will take your place in the stands. I for one love this activity too much to be done with it for forever. It's like a child that's growing up, changing, and making its own decisions for itself independent of my wants and desires, but I still love it all the same.

Folks, you know you're old and the activity has passed you by when the guy who is the epitome of Star is opining for the "Good Ole Days." "Booooh booooh...Play something we know!" haa haaa....Love ya' Brent For some reason the theme for "All in the Family" popped into my head as I was typing this.

What's friggin' cavalier's theme Dave? I think the Crown's music is more fun than Cavies or BD (can't say I like it more than WSS). That's not hard to sell. The theme on the other hand, I could see why you could say it's hard to sell but I'm going to ask the time honored DCP question, why do we have to have a theme to begin with? Can you win without one? Even if the theme is a "hard sell," can't they still be rewarded for simply interpreting the music with marching and movement? I think when a dancer creates a dance, they do it to interpret the music...it's that simple. On another note, I think themes are cool when they're simple: West Side Story, Phantom of the Opera, Machine, Belshazzar's Feast. IMO, a corps isn't on the field long enough to explore and convey anything that isn't readily tangible from jump. edit: Good to know...thanks. edit 2 muah ahh ahh I would agree with this too. [Getting off topic a little] This is just my opinion, but the extra movement in the bicycle step makes it a little more difficult to be in time and consistent from person to person. It's not that those things can't be clean and consistent...it's just that it's one more thing they have to perfect. I'd like to see Cavies wear light pants so we can truly compare apples to apples. I wonder how much (if any) more inconsistencies would be revealed. I'd like to see BD wear light pants cuz, well, I think their technique is spectacular and to hide it with black pants is a sin [/Getting off topic a lot] edit 3 muah ahh ahh I can't say this is the case in Crown for certain, but most corps have some kind of basics block and it's usually the first thing you do just about everyday up to and including finals week.

I honestly never liked Star's foot technique until '93. I often wondered if it's because it took Todd Ryan's program 4 years to finally sink in or if maybe it was that they/we took that long to figure out how to move at the higher speeds and still have good feet. I always envied Vanguard's toes before I started marching. The intensity in their feet was one of the very first things I loved about the activity. That's why I always emulated them...of course having size 12s and double jointed ankles didn't hurt either (inside joke).

It really surprises me that Crown would have bad feet because I assume that if the brass line is being taught in the "VanDoren" methodology, then having feet with the drum major would be stressed to a VERY high degree. Even if the visual staff were not good at stressing foot timing, the brass staff would. On the other hand, the actual foot technique could definitely be all over the place on a person to person basis even though the timing is with the drum major. I honestly didn't pay much attention to the feet when I saw them so I can't comment. I do find it hard to believe that they could be playing well together as an ensemble if their feet were not together but maybe that's an issue too (though I don't really remember that being an issue in Houston either)...somebody who's paying more attention than me care to clarify?

Prayers going up to you Scott... We marched next to each other in the UH band the one year I was there...talk about a guy with incredible posture :)....get well soon Scott.