OMello1

I'm sure there are some exceptions once in a while, but do you think the food network viewers are going to think drum corps food is appetizing enough to watch the show? Come on...sometimes I can barely get the food down... M

Calm down. He didn't claim that they are or aren't doing anything. The show concept *is* reminiscent of a couple well-known marching band productions from recent history (Kennesaw a '04 also...). You will just have to accept that, because it is true. It is not a bad thing, and I am looking forward to Cadets being the Cadets again next summer... M

maybe a little harsh and uncalled for? M

Agreed. [insert generic pro-cavalier gushing comment here] M

He wasn't paying attention, from what I remember. :P

It seems most people in the activity have moved on. There is so much more important stuff to worry about than whether we are called the trumpets sopranos or trumpets. Just not important. M

have they ever followed a logical progression of their shows in recent years? Spin Cycle/007/My Kind of Town/Machine/???? M

I also knew about the legal issues with the velvet knights name, and that this new organization would be simply called "VK". I'm not sure how or where I read about this, but I'm certainly not an insider...so...take it for what it is worth I guess... :) M

Yikes. Hazing? My 10' pole is firmly locked in my closet... M

I think we should recognize that there is a difference between a corps "folding" (as in ceasing operations) and going "inactive" (the organization still exists and operates without fielding a corps). It seems lately that organizations aren't folding so much as they are taking time off the field to solidify their financial and managerial situations with the expectation of a return to the field in the future. Best of luck to The Magic as they work to resolve their organizational issues and move towards a successful (and long) return to the field. M

again. M (I know...I know...not productive conversation and all rumors...sue me...)

AMEN SISTER! M

Well...there are also a bunch of D2/3 corps that have aspirations of moving up into the D1 class someday. How would "leaving" DCI and forming their own circuit support their long-range plans? M

But Farve isn't going to play on a Rugby team during Football's offseason. But a great high school trumpet player would go march corps. The analogy is a little flawed. And I do think one could draw some connections between the health of marching band and the health of drum corps. M

But who gets to define what "real" drum corps is? Where do we take the section cut in the history of drum and bugle corps and say "this is it! THIS is what "real" drum corps is!"? 2006? 1999? 1990? 1982? 1970? 1965? 1955? 1940? Which one of these years is "real" drum and bugle corps? DCA is the future of their own brand of drum and bugle corps. DCI is the future of their brand of drum and bugle corps. DCE is the future of their brand. Who is to say one is real and one is fake? And I think that we all hope that each of these organizations and their respective brand of drum and bugle corps has a long and successful future. One doesn't "win" when the other one fails... M

A couple things caught my eye in this: 1) I agree that the term "youth activity" is, in some cases, a little misleading when describing DCI, as there are hundreds (or thousands) of participants that are 18 or older. And in fact, much of the top 12 will have an average age over 18. But there are also many corps with an average age less than 18, especially when you consider D2 & D3 as well (this statement is drawn from my own experiences and I do not have facts to support my claim...but we all know I'm right! b**bs ). It would be interesting to see what the average age of all partiticpants is...my guess would be in the 17-18 range. Maybe not legally considered "children", but when did that ever become the goal anyway? The term "youth" as it is used by DCI to describe its participants is a subjective term and always has been. 2) I also agree that it would be wrong for a select 21 corps to define what an entire activity is (how many active drum corps are there in the world? well over 100, right?). But they don't...these 21 define what they want to be. And if the extension is being made to other corps or organizations that are not members, that really isn't their fault. The corps that work to achieve members status in DCI are and should be allowed to define what they are and how they will go about their business. For those corps who don't want to play by those rules...well...there ARE other options (though pretty limited). Why should DCI be frowned upon for doing what it does better than any other similar organizations has? DCI has done what they wanted to do well enough that it has become the preeminate drum and bugle corps association in the world. They should be commended for that, not ridiculed. 3) I don't think we could really define drum corps and marching band as a sub-category of either. They have somewhat different roots: drum & bugle corps started with the military parades, high school marching band took a slightly diffent route and came up through school music programs as half-time entertainment during athletic events. Although, they certainly cannot be split completely as there are shared traits and goals during the development of both. It really is a more recent development that these two activities have "combined" and basically do the same thing now, but with slightly different rules and such. I am a proponent for the definition of MARCHING MUSIC to include (but not limited to): DCI, DCA, BOA, USSBA, WGI and the numerous local circuits. Drum corps and marching band are sub-genres of the Marching Music Activity. 4) I have to strongly disagree with your last paragraph. How is DCI NOT working toward the goal of "...service to youth in their development toward becoming young, civic-minded adults"? Just by doing what they do (organization and oversight of its member corps and peformance opportunities), they are indirectly serving youth. If the kids in the corps are not being taught to be civic-minded adults, then that is a failure of the individual corps, NOT DCI. And how can you claim that DCI isn't working towards the goal of preserving and growing the activity? Certainly, they could be doing more in many people's eyes (including mine), specifically when it comes to D2 & D3. But DCI does a lot to ensure the proper operation of the individual corps, through oversight and membership requirements of the corps. By doing this, they work to ensure that its member corps are healthy and offer the "kids" positive experiences. DCI may not directly serve the youth, but were they ever supposed to? Isn't it the individual corps that should be doing that? M

Hmm...I hate to temper the excitement...but I just have to wonder...why? Since they clearly stated that each of the 3 shows are completely different from each other, and they don't seem to have a unifying idea or theme (at least from what we can tell at this point), what is the purpose of announcing the other 2 shows already? Is it the hype and excitement thing? This is all a little mysterious to me, to be honest. M

What is Onyx Training? M

A couple points to make regarding this: 1) I would be careful about defining success for a corps as winning DCI. I think most, or all, corps don't consdier winning DCI their ultimate measure of success, and if they haven't done that yet (or in a long time), then they are on "a treadmill to nowhere". That idea is a load of junk. :) 2) Who is to blame that so few corps have taken the DCI title? The corps themselves? For being consistently great? Or the corps who haven't been able to get there yet? We all know they are trying. Blame DCI or the judges? Have they really been so far off on ANY year that a corps that earned 5th place really should have won? I don't think so. I don't think blame can be assigned to anyone or anything. It is just the way it is. We would all love to see a new corps break into the top 3 and take a championship...there would be nothing better for the activity. But if they don't deserve it yet, then they just don't. It is not Cadets, Blue Devils or Cavaliers' faults that Glassmen, Bluecoats, Crown or whoever hasn't won DCI yet. And it isn't DCI's fault either. 3) I'm not sure that anyone has credited the success of WGI or BOA or whatever to DCI. That is silly. But they influence and feed off each other, so to pretend that WGI built it success without the support of what DCI and BOA does is just wrong. They all have a symbiotic relationship and that should be celebrated. 4) I'll consider attending drum & bugle corps' wake when DCI, DCA and all the corps close their doors and The Summer Music Games cease to exist. And if you haven't noticed, that hasn't happened, and doesn't look to be happening anytime soon. M

I agree with your assessment of the elitist attitude some posters seem to have. Unfortunately, it seems some people are unable or just unwilling to consider or value anything other than drum corps or even DCI in their assessments of the "health" of drum corps or marching music. Drum corps is completely reliant and tied to the marching band and indoor activities, and vice versa. M

You are probably correct when you say that drum & bugle corps, specifically, is educating fewer young people today than, say in 1970 or 1960. Fewer corps = few kids participating. But discussing that without understanding or acknowledging the associated considerations is useles. The days of "drum corps for the masses" is over. Having a corps in every town is just a memory. Drum corps has "grown up" and is now a much smaller entity...a smaller snow-capped peak that exists at the top of a now much, much larger mountain. Look at it like the iceberg analogy: drum corps is the 10% you see above the water...the most visible part, but certainly not the largest or most "dangerous". What we have below the water--WGI, BOA, USSBA, and all the numerous local circuits and organizations--is much larger than it was when drum corps had much bigger numbers. Of course, I don't have the figures to prove this guess corrent, but I would bet that there are A LOT more kids participating in any of the various marching music activities than ever before...I think that THAT is a much better gauge of the health of drum corps than anything else. But my question is this...do we really *need* to be any larger than we are today? The local youth are still being served...there is a marching band, colorguard or drumline in just about every town these days. And DCI has become the "major league" of marching music. Think about that word "league". What does a league mean to the NFL? 32 teams. Baseball? 30 teams. Do we really need to have 50, 75 or 200 D1 corps? I honestly don't think so. How would an organization survive that usually places in the 175-225 place? If we think that Kiwanis or Pioneer exist in a competitive wasteland thesedays at 20th-24th place, imagine trying to recruit kids to march in a group that can't seem to break into the top 200. Ouch. One of the beautiful things about the NFL is the upward mobility of teams. This year's last place group could be walking away with a superbowl ring in a year or two. The same opportunities exist with a smaller field of corps. Granted, a corps just doesn't go from 20th place to 1st in two years...in fact, a corps doesn't go from 20th to 1st period. But climbing into the "elite" top 12 from 20th place is a whole lot more feasible than it is climbing from 357th place to the top 12. I say DCI is just about at an ideal size...D1 ranging from 20 - 30 organzations. Though I would still like to see bigger numbers for D2 & 3, but that is a different thread. What we really need are a couple dozen healthy D1 corps and a solid bunch of D2 and D3 groups to exist at the pinnacle of the marching music "empire", to innovate and continually redefine excellence and pushing the quality of the allied actvities. My $.02 M

Besides what everyone else has said about your post, I would also like to point out that you failed to assemble an effective argument against the statement that you originally replied to...in fact, you didn't address it at all... I would also like to point out that when I first started visiting online drum corps comminuties in 1995 (RAMD), the death of D&BC was imminent then too. Good thing I didn't hold my breath then, and I'm not going to do it now... M

I think this is an interesting point. It would be nice to say and prove the the bleeding has stopped, but it hasn't really. We still seem to loose a few corps each year. So here is the question: when do you think this will stop...when will the number of corps stabilize? M

I disagree. I also feel that "marching music", taken into consderation as a whole entity (DCI, BOA, USSBA, WGI, DCA and the numerous smaller reginal circuits) is quite healthy. We, as die-hard drum corps fans, tend to have a fairly limited view on who we are and where we fit in with the larger marching music activity, and how our health should be measured (especially that last part). Granted, DCI and all the other organizations I listed have little to no direct bearing on each other, but the all have TONS of indirect affect. The health of our activity have MUCH to do with things other than the total numer of organizations. I sure hope people can understand that... There is also merit in the idea that a drum and bugle corps organization of today is hard to compare to one of 30 or 40 years ago. Our world is different (at least so I hear over and over...I'm only 30), and hence the organizations are different: bigger, more regulated, more insured, more oversite...more difficult. I've said this before, but I would rather have 50 or 60 strong, healthy organizations that provide quality experiences to their memberships than have 300 organizations where DCI, with their limited resources (though they have more now than ever...), would only be able to provide limited oversite to the organziations, especially the ones experiencing difficulties. Think about it...we have approximately 25 D1 corps. Last summer, Capital Regiment had trouble providing a quality experience. In the past, it might have been another corps. So, for every 25 D1 corps, we will have one that experiences problems and isn't able to provide a quality experience. So...extend that to 300+ corps, and we have at least a dozen organizations that can't feed their kids, get them down the road safely, or provide quality instruction. AND, I might point out, it might be a little difficult finding 300 *qualified* individuals to run these 300 groups. Heck, it seems we have trouble finding 25 these days. (Okay...so maybe that analogy isn't perfect...but the point remains...) So...to be honest, I would hate to see the day when there are 300 D1 (or D1 - D3) corps around the country...I can only imaged the horror stories that will come about... Give me lean and mean over bloated and shoddy anyday... M

It seems to me, and I might be incorrect, but these "regrouping" years that corps seem to be taking advantage of are becoming more common. Look at the recent past: The Magic took 2000 & 2001 off and made strong return in 2002 (too bad they couldn't maintain though...what is their status for 2007?????) Troopers took a year off, looking to make a strong comeback in 2007 Kiwanis too a year off, also looking to make a strong comeback, with a new home city, in 2007 Now Capital Regiment doing the same. Am I missing anyone? This trend has been around for a while in WGI. IW guards seem to come and go faster and more frequently than drum corps do (corps are usually bigger organizations and serve more people...). Other groups like Pride have taken years off to "regroup" and have come back strong the next year. Is this something we will be seeing more of in the years to come, for corps that burn through their resources or experience significant management/staff turnover or turbulence? Is it a smarter idea to take a year or two off to regroup and come back (hopefully) stronger than to "tough it out" through the lean years and hope conditions improve? I definately think so. M