Henson

The problem with current leadership is that they seem to treat the events of the past year as nothing but a PR problem. It’s not. It’s a leadership culture problem. Until they overcome their denial and recognize that, this kind of unforced error will continue. People here have said it before, and it’s true; an organizational structure where the board is wholly answerable to the individual corps management will never solve the problem. This is because all of their incentives lie in supporting the “leadership,” and the well-being of the kids gets entirely lost. There’s more here than bad PR.

I don’t post here often, but I’m heavily involved in the marching arts and a deep consumer of DCI’s products. I’m taking the year off. I’ll come back when they bring in a professional board of directors not answerable only to current member corps. I insist that this organization, when contemplating action, ask themselves “what is best for the kids” and then do that. Absent evidence of that change, I’m out. I can’t support this any more. And that’s sad. The leadership appears to view everything that’s happening as a PR problem rather than an existential crisis of leadership culture. (No, I’m not Chuck. We share a name)

My opinion is that the person is the gender they identify as. If a person transitioned to become a man, he should have every opportunity to feel welcome into the brotherhood of one of these organizations. If the opposite was happening, I could see there being some opportunity for discussion there, but my own opinion is pretty clear. She's a woman. People get all squicked out by trans folks. I don't get that. They're people, same as the rest of us. Be respectful, and accept them as the gender they present. It ain't hard.

Were DCI to define "drum and bugle corps" as all fraternal organizations, restricting corps to men only, or make a rule that only women can be in guard, or that all tubas have to be black, I would have a problem with that. THAT is unjustly denying people an opportunity to march. However, individual corps within the organization have forged identities over generations which are centered around their masculinity, and I think they should be free to do so. The alums want it, the leaders want it, and, most importantly, the members want it. For many of them, that brotherhood is THE REASON they tried out for that group and not, say, Cadets or Crusaders, especially in the case of the Scouts. Were they to change that, they wouldn't be changing their traditions - they'd be changing their core identity, just as much as that hypothetical transgender person you all keep discussing (for some reason). Corps are free to choose to accept men, women, or both. One of the things that is special about drum corps, and which high school bands can't really emulate, is that ability to make a clear choice of group identity (in all aspects, not just the gender makeup of the corps). In my opinion, if you want to be in a co-ed corps, you're probably missing the point if you take that to mean you want to be a Scout. There are choices out there. Better ones, even. But if you're looking for a brotherhood, then one of those two corps may be the place for you. It's not like they make the decision for competitive reasons. They do it because that is their product, their brand, and their identity. Asking the Cavaliers to bring in women is like asking the Blue Devils to wear green - it just ain't them. I don't mean to be flip, but there have been all-women corps before. The fact that they died off (along with most of the all-male corps) leaving only these two corps with a single-sex tradition isn't due to some nefarious activity or because the men were just mean. It's due to a lot of other factors which had nothing to do with that corps identity. (Disclosure - despite the screenname, I am not Chuck Henson. I only wish I were that fabulous. We share a last name and, occasionally, dinner.)

I've only read the first post of the thread, but my immediate thought was that perhaps some of the "name" corps should recognize their status as guests at housing sites, and show their hosts at least a little bit of respect. I know if I invited some stranger to share my home for a few days, I would be really upset if they put a bunch of unreasonable demands on my hospitality, effectively taking over my entire home in the name of "rehearsal space."

Maybe the point isn't that the penalty shouldn't have been awarded. Maybe the point we're all missing is that the rule is dumb. Think about it - a 1pt penalty FOR THAT??!?! Certain people have tried to get that rule cleaned up in the past and failed. We'll see how the Cabs come down next time it's voted on.

Of course DCI and the corps are not responsible to the high school programs and their safety. That is 100% the responsibility of the people working with those programs. My point was that I feel that DCI and the corps do a good job of this. The high school programs, however, do not. I've watched entire drum lines tumble over a badly placed tarp. I've watched kids picked up and just about flipped over when the tarp they have one foot on gets dragged towards the goal line by panicked kids and adults terrified of a penalty they have almost no chance of receiving (BOA generally won't penalize as long as a good faith effort is being made). I've watched billboard sized props picked up by the wind and blown into high velocity drill - or knocked over onto colorguard. I've watched tarps picked up by wind and blown into performers. All of this is preventable by basic practices that the corps are (largely) using, but that many schools are not. In the scholastic setting, the liability issue is a very real concern. There will, someday soon, be an accident that changes how we deal with props on the football field across the activity. My only point is - why not make the changes before we're forced to?

Risk mitigation and risk management are not new fields. There are well defined best practices that can and should be used in the identification and mitigation of risks. Frankly, I trust the modern DCI groups to implement a lot of these practices, though there should be strong incentive for the organization itself to either clinic some procedures and sell them to the groups, or even mandate some type of performance and rehearsal risk analysis. This, and other issues of liability, will be the next "copyright/permissions" problem faced by the marching arts world, and a lot of people are slow to wake up to it because they're chasing after the newer, bigger, better thing. The people that concern me aren't the DCI staffs. I think they have the right people and procedures in place to do the right thing by the kids. My concern is the high school groups that try to emulate them. Someone brought up the example of tarps, and how much thought has to go into safely integrating them into a performance. Now extrapolate that out to the hundreds of high school groups who are using tarps on football fields around the country every fall - do you think they are making that same kind of effort to get it right, or even know to try? I don't think they are. I don't mean to get preachy, but I've worked as event staff for BOA for a long time, and some of the crap I see high school groups try to pull makes me sick. If it were up to me, I'd ban tarps in high school competition entirely the way we've banned animals, pyrotechnics, props over 12', people standing on props without a safety rail, etc. I'm terrified to see how many middle-tier high school groups try to emulate the end of Tilt this fall, or Boston's pyramid. The effectiveness of communication in show design is important, but the kids and their safety are way, way more important. Those relative values need to be carefully weighed when you want to integrate some of these massive props and tarps in an outdoor environment, because these props are inherently dangerous.

I love Coastal Surge. I love the show, your drumline is especially great. I love the staff, I love the kids. I love drum corps in general. Because of all of this, I have to say - PLEASE be careful. This ain't the 80's. Don't let someone in or out of the organization pressure you into making a decision with undue risk to the children entrusted to your care. Don't just wing it with a busload of kids and a vanload of staff. Everyone deserves better than that. Don't leave because you have enough to "start" tour. Leave when you have enough to finish tour, safely, and get everyone home with a positive experience.

Those uniforms definitely DO say "Blue Devils." They just don't say "1970s Blue Devils." The breezy construction, the way I expect them to move, the flash and showmanship... There is no modern corps for whom this uniform is a better fit. What would you rather see... ruffles???

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"Beginner Friendly" Isn't this DCA nowadays? The average age of a DCA corps in this decade is much, much lower than people think. The 50 year old beer drinkers aren't just becoming outliers - they have been for a while. An illustration: At the open house camps for the corps I affiliate with, we have well attended parent meetings where we explain the drum corps thing in detail, assure them that we're concerned foremost for their child's safety and education, and give examples of how many of our former members have moved on to DCI corps - then, in some cases, returned home to us after age out.

The current generation of band directors is, in large percentage, a group who grew out of drum corps, or grew up as fans of it. The best groups in BOA have heavily corps-connected staffs and encourage their kids to march corps. They see the benefits of a corps education as something which outweighs missing a couple camps - because let's face it, a kid who marched corps all summer is going to know how to learn music and drill pretty darned quickly, and will (hopefully) bring an businesslike attitude to rehearsal which will rub off. Doesn't always work that way, though. Plenty of kids come back "too good for marching band" and are a drag on the ensemble. There, it falls to the leadership of the director/staff to make the necessary attitude adjustment. That doesn't speak to all BOA bands. It speaks to the top couple tiers, "semifinalist" caliber bands. Thing is, DCI is becoming a college activity, especially in World Class. Not many HS sophomores marching Blue Devils...

Wholeheartedly agree, and that was kinda my point. They separate operations and education, and their education staff already include the same people they'd be getting from any kind of formal DCI branding - but the MFA contacts are already more extensive than DCI's because they reach out to college and high school educators, as well as professional artists, that DCI has no relationship with. BOA, DCI, and WGI run in parallel. Same people, different structures.

Why would BOA pursue a partnership with DCI which disrupts their current (successful) event model? Frankly, the guys judging at a BOA event and doing Sunday clinics on request are largely already the same folks they'd be "gaining" from any partnership. I know this is a DCI board, and we get a bit of myopia here at times, but the reality is that DCI should be pursuing a partnership with BOA, not the other way around - and I'm not sure BOA would be all that interested. They know what they're doing, and don't need the "help." BOA runs events. Does a really good job of it, and they don't use corps people or band people. They use events people. Their legal ducks are in a row, they're back on solid financial footing, they're managed extremely well (and consistently, which is a not insignificant point given the context of YEA...), they have great relationships with the venues, and every detail of every show is relentlessly scouted, planned, and controlled. That and the promise that BOA judges are arguably better in consistency of commentary and professionalism than what you're going to find at any other high school band show add up to a value to the customers - high school band directors. Listen to what the band directors on this thread have been quietly saying, and realize that for every band student with a corps affiliation, there's over 100 without it. BOA doesn't need DCI. DCI needs BOA more so than the inverse. Someone made the point that USBANDS is overextended - their resources don't match their vision. This seems like it could be an attempt to overcome that structural deficiency, and I hope they succeed. Consistency of the brand is a problem with that circuit, and it starts at the top, I'm afraid. These are problems that BOA doesn't have. If there would be some sort of formal agreement between DCI and BOA to partner on events, there had better be some analysis that it's something which is making their shows demonstrably better, rather than change for the sake of "cool! DCI!"

BOA does partner with groups, usually local band booster associations, to provide volunteers at shows. No reason it couldn't use a drum corps, provided that corps was able to provide enough people. That's a big caveat.

BOA runs all their own shows, and rolls into town with considerable staff presence. This is one of the reasons their shows are so uniformly run. USBANDS, with the possible exception of the top-level shows, doesn't do that. Their organization is much closer to the TEP system, but without as much hassle (e.g. setting up housing, etc.) The USBANDS approach is like a franchise agreement - "Give us some money, find a venue, hire some judges, and we'll give you sheets, tab software, and let you use our brand to promote your show." Looks to me like MiM is going to be a new promoter of USBANDS shows as a fundraiser. Ok. No biggie. I don't really see what's extraordinarily different about this. The cool thing is that, presumably, corps staffers will have some sort of handle on how to run on-site logisitcs, more so than the "Podiddlyville County Band Boosters." They can also probably account for the cost of hiring the judges a bit differently, which has benefits for cash flow. Finally, what I would explore if I were them, is BOA's idea they've used in the last several years of providing clinics to interested band staffs after some shows. You all are seeing conflict where one doesn't really exist. I don't imagine, given their mission and personalities, the leaders of Music For All being upset because there's an expansion of performance opportunities for high school musicians. They're probably thrilled, and hope it goes well. Music For All really doesn't seem to much care about other circuits. They run their events. If you want to show up, they're thrilled to have you.

What makes drum corps exotic in this current era isn't its differentness of instrumentation. What makes it exotic and desirable to those who audition is its excellence and, unfortunately, its exclusivity. It's where the really good band kids go to prove they can do it - if they have the funds to even try out. It's where those kids who are frustrated by carrying lunks through endless fall rehearsals go to rehearse with a group that cares, and that no kidding puts out THE BEST PRODUCT they can. The instrumentation means precisely jack squat to most people below the age of like 30, though if anything it's the fact that it's brass vs the fact that it's bugles that is really important. That said... Brass voices work well on a football field, whether they're bugles or not. Most woodwinds kinda don't in my opinion - and this is coming from a guy who's been a huge supporter in the band world for a long time. Saxophones and piccolos may be an exception to that, but clarinets and flutes? Sheesh. May as well march violas for all the projection they offer when played by an average musician on the move. And they're totally impractical, like trombones (my primary instrument is trombone, by the way). The only reason to have most woodwind voices on a football field is because the woodwinds in your winter and spring concert program at a public school should be allowed to participate in the fall program, something DCI doesn't have to consider.

They changed a rule...

You're right. It's a fair point. There were some structural reasons for that, reasons which have been rectified by a very dedicated and professional board. There were also economic reasons, which they have little control over; and reasons of reputation which, again, have largely been rectified (see the return of a pretty major Indiana group to BOA competition for 2014 as evidence of this). Kinda underscores my point about risk, though. They just got themselves off the brink and are on a road to being relatively healthy - why take on DCI? How does it help them?

I hate to blunt, but from the perspective of a successful and growing high school band circuit, is DCI in its current state anything other than a huge and unnecessary liability to take on? This is a drum corps forum. I get that. This is going to be drum corps-centric, and rightfully so. But in the real world, the audience for BOA is family members. They don't care about drum corps or drum corps fans, because they don't need them. They partner with DCI on occasion because it makes sense, and it furthers their goals of promoting positive musical experiences - but they have no need to. If drum corps (God forbid) died tomorrow, BOA would be just as strong. And getting to DCA/DCI, most likely scenario is if (God Forbid) DCI ever breaks apart - DCA will absorb the corps, and they'll do it on their terms.

You and I might think that way, and we would probably be right. But go the the website and look at the makeup of the BoD of MFA, then look at the personalities on the BoD of DCI, and ask yourself if the MFA people would let the DCI people take over, or if the DCI people would refrain from trying to... Personalities and egos. One of the same things that's killing DCI all on its own.

That's fair, Fred, and I'm sorry if you felt like I was replying specifically to you as the thread starter (I wasn't). You make a distinction between the artistic identities of the competitive groups within the two circuits, and the business offices which run them. Other people don't. They're talking as if BOA is some rival group bent on infiltrating and taking over the drum corps brand for some nefarious reasons, which is just plain silly. The truth is more complicated, as I think you know. The people making artistic and educational decisions for the high-performing BOA groups are the same people - the EXACT same people - who make many of those decisions for DCI ensembles. The business side, however, is totally different. Music For All has a very strong and invested Board of Directors filled with unaffiliated business leaders who, frankly, would not put up with the shenanigans we see from the DCI "leaders." They see DCI as a partner, and they are happy to see DCI and WGI thrive, but as someone who knows some of these folks I'd put money down on the side of them having zero interest in dealing with the prima donnas who run DCI corps, and they are NOT going to vote as a board to endanger the BOA product and brand by bringing the DCI drama into their boardroom. Aside from that, the business model is completely different. Competing groups pay BOA to participate. DCI pays competing groups to perform. That just can't work if they're the same non-profit. There's a conflict of interest which affects level of service provided to the high school groups - and if you don't believe me, refer to USBands... (This is where I make my periodic disclaimer that I am not Chuck Henson. I'm just a friend and admirer of his lucky enough to share the same totally awesome last name.)

There are important structural reasons that BOA/MFA and DCI would have one hell of time merging. I'm going to copy/paste a reply I posted in another thread which outlines some of the reasons, as well as explains what BOA actually IS (a lot of you don't seem to know) - but the primary reason they won't ever merge is in bold: Some of you appear not to even know what BOA is, which might inform your opinion of the likelihood these wild-eyed conspiracy theories have of being true. Bands of America has such a different structure and mission that I seriously doubt if they would want to absorb DCI, and vice versa. Bands Of America is an operating division of a parent non-profit. That parent organization, Music For All, is not focused on marching music, but on the advocacy of music education in public schools. They aren't YEA!/USBANDS, which basically is a fundraiser for an existing drum corps. Music For All is an organization that happens to run some really well-produced high school band invitationals in addition to massive concert music festivals, camps, and other advocacy activities. When you really get down to it, they're a professional event management company that also does some lobbying and grassroots political organizing. DCI and WGI have been "strategic partners" (NOT sponsors) of Music For All for a long time. That means the three work together to promote common goals. It doesn't mean they have any intent of merging. Frankly, I think MFA is too well run to want to take on a huge liability like drum corps in its current state. More to the point, from the corps' perspectives, the way the organizations are structured at the board of directors level is so different as to make them 100% incompatible. If DCI wanted to merge with BOA, the corps would have to give up all claim to their seats within the leadership of the organization. That's the bottom line, and it's not gonna happen - no matter how much it might actually help them to have the competitive circuit business offices decouple from the corps business offices.

Wait - what? We've gone from allowing trombones to merging with Music For All (the parent of BOA)? That's rocketing so far beyond silly that we must be orbiting Epsilon Eridani by now. Come. ON. DCI changed a rule. One. That's it. THEY CHANGED A RULE. Some of you appear not to even know what BOA is, which might inform your opinion of the likelihood these wild-eyed conspiracy theories have of being true. Bands of America has such a different structure and mission that I seriously doubt if they would want to absorb DCI, and vice versa. Bands Of America is an operating division of a parent non-profit. That parent organization, Music For All, is not focused on marching music, but on the advocacy of music education in public schools. They aren't YEA!/USBANDS, which basically is a fundraiser for an existing drum corps. Music For All is an organization that happens to run some really well-produced high school band invitationals in addition to massive concert music festivals, camps, and other advocacy activities. When you really get down to it, they're a professional event management company that also does some lobbying and grassroots political organizing. DCI and WGI have been "strategic partners" (NOT sponsors) of Music For All for a long time. That means the three work together to promote common goals. It doesn't mean they have any intent of merging. Frankly, I think MFA is too well run to want to take on a huge liability like drum corps in its current state. More to the point, from the corps' perspectives, the way the organizations are structured at the board of directors level is so different as to make them 100% incompatible. If DCI wanted to merge with BOA, the corps would have to give up all claim to their seats within the leadership of the organization. That's the bottom line, and it's not gonna happen - no matter how much it might actually help them to have the competitive circuit business offices decouple from the corps business offices.