Rifuarian

Then it's very lucky for Vanguard that they weren't playing little league baseball back in '89.

What does the NCAA have to do with DCI? Anyways, seems to me that it's a good thing that DCI differs from the NCAA on this. The NCAA's broken compliance system is riddled with corruption, favoritism, arbitrary enforcement of rules, so on and so forth. DCI isn't perfect today and I'm sure it was far, far from perfect in the fourth year of its existence but it's a sight better than the NCAA in this regard.

Thanks for directing me to that thread. I've never really followed that forum. The post from the Muchachos alum is far more useful than DeLucia's account (at least up until he goes into standard DCI-killed-my-corps conspiracy) and differs from it on a couple of key points. More useful than the account in the drum corps history book, too, and a decent complement to the Cavies/DCI viewpoint I've read on here and elsewhere. Quick question: Was the Muchachos director's name spelled McAuliffe or MacAuliffe? I've seen it written both ways. Seems like his first name was John, but did he go by any other name. The murder thing sounds like another drum corps legend, and not a very well known one judging by the reactions in this thread. I've searched through some databases that include papers from northern New Jersey (which I'm assuming is where the supposed murder took place) and can't find any evidence of it, though that certainly doesn't mean it didn't happen.

While the OP is certainly interesting, I hope that one day someone from Muchacho's side of the story will be able to discuss openly and honestly without hiding names and sources, without making unfounded accusations, and without the victim complex. Guys from the other side of the story certainly seem to be to do this. As a neutral party with an intense interest in the history of drum corps it would be great to have trustworthy accounts from both sides of the incident.

Mergers used to be a common thing, back when corps were dying off left and right and casting about for ways to survive. Of course it was usually a preventative measure and not something you did after your corps went under. It only delayed the inevitable in most cases, though some of today's corps are the product of mergers. Anyways, you'll never get a positive from adding negatives. You only bury yourself deeper in the hole. Likewise you won't get one good organization by adding two poorly run organizations together.

Except for the occasional high toss I probably wouldn't notice if weapons work disappeared entirely. I always found that the flags added the most to a show, far more than weapons or dancing which aren't always very effective from high in the stands. But what my guard friends tell me is that rifles are difficult to replace because an entire school of technique has developed around this particular piece of equipment so it is very difficult to find a workable replacement. I don't really think of the guard side of things as being very resistant to change, so it seems to me like factors other than tradition are working to keep the vaguely rifle-shaped block of wood in use. Now I'm not a guard person at all so that could be wrong. You can find funny - and not so funny - little traditions enduring in most any performance art. In ballet en pointe technique can be brutal on the body (just ask my sister) yet it's kept around mostly unchanged because, well . . . just because that's the way it's done. Drum corps is hardly unique in this regard.

Couple of years ago DCI offered free kids tickets and super cheap adult tickets to Indiana residents. Even though I loathe finals in LOS stadium that was almost enough to bring me in. I watched some warmups and went to a baseball game instead. The deal wasn't advertised at all (I found out from someone who works at DCI) and I'm pretty sure they no longer offer it. Speaking of warmups I've always thought that finals weeks warmups should be made into more of an event. They already had lots of unintentional exposure when finals were in White River State Park . . . I'd like to see DCI move warmups back to the park, organize and advertise the whole thing as some sort of special event. Have a schedule, have people around to explain what's going on, hands-on demonstrations (letting kids bang on some drums, things like that). It surely would not cost much and would help DCI engage with the community. I'd also like to see a full corps play the SSB at Indians during finals week. That would surely garner some attention. The Saturday parade is great, though. \off-topic

I imagine the only fans that would fill out sheets would be officious nerds like myself. I also fill out score cards at baseball games. Maybe a straight up fan vote would be more engaging? I really like the idea of including the international corps, and really, really like the student fan network subscription. There's a lot of talk about engaging "the kids" but little concrete action towards that goal. Can't imagine DCI bringing itself to do something like that.

How often have you seen them live? Have you seen them live at all? For me, Crown is all about the live experience. There are many corps whose shows I prefer to Crown - Vanguard, Phantom, BD, etc. - but getting pinned back by that magnificent wall of sound can't be beat, IMO. I say all this as a percussionist. And the arrangements are usually pretty satisfying too. Conceptually they've been a mess for a few years now, but like some earlier posters I couldn't give two s###s about concepts or themes. I just wanna be entertained, and Crown fulfills that need. If you're a visual person I guess I can see how you'd be a bit of a Crown skeptic. Even though I'm not a visual person I can't really say I've ever been wowed by a Crown drill, for instance. Last year's whiplash drill seemed like overcompensation. The body movement can be a bit excessive, and I think there are other corps who do that better. But for me these are all secondary concerns. Anyways, I've been led to believe that hoards of Crown fans tear apart anyone who dares say anything negative about Crown on this board. Seems they haven't arrived yet . . .

Ah, Internet Evasion Tactic #12: "It's just a joke! I'm joking! Why can't you guys take a joke?" Hint: Humor tinged with some kind of underlying bitterness, grudge, mean-spiritedness, etc. does not work. No one will take your obvious baiting with good humor. And again, it seems like you want everyone to take your barbs in stride while you're whining about being bashed. Don't dish it out if you can't take it. It's not that hard to point out what you like and don't like without being attacked. As for the rest of the post: I'm a huge, huge sports fan. But I like to think that drum corps folks are above the childish tribalism that some sports fans indulge in. Guess that's not the case. It's not hard to separate a corps from that small, small, minuscule handful of fans who might have dared annoy you at some point in time.

Well, the saying is "Don't dish it out if you can't take it." If you're going to be "harsh" then don't cry when it's thrown right back in your face. Most everyone on here has had extensive drum corps experience and seem to know the difference between open, honest, criticism and trollish jacka##ery. Let's look at a couple of examples. Example 1: "I respect Crown and want them to win, but I wish they weren't so derivative. I think that may be holding them back." Example 2: "I liked it better when Madison did it every year from around 1977 to today." Which post is more likely to get a negative reaction? Which post is more useful to furthering discussion rather than picking a fight? Sure example 1 might have garnered some negative reactions, but it wouldn't have been as extreme. And so what if some Crown fans complain about BD all the time? What does that have to do with the corps? I find that many Scouts fans are prickly in the extreme when it comes to ANY slight to their corps, real or imagined, but I don't confuse them with the Scouts and don't let them stop from rooting for that corps.

Viewpoints, not views. On RAMD, for example, you often heard from the point of view of one of the wealthiest men in the world. We certainly don't have that on DCP as far as I know.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous with this I'm-the-victim spiel. When it comes to criticism on DCP it's not what you say that causes an uproar but rather how you say it. I've been critical of Crown but didn't get piled on because I didn't intentionally word my posts in a way that would rile up fans. Crowns fans can be over the top but are generally okay. IMO they're nowhere close to being the most sensitive fanbase in DCI.

In addition to some of the names already mentioned Jeff Fiedler has an account and will on occasion post something. Bob Jacobs (Jersey Surf) used to post pretty openly up until a couple of years ago. Truth is that most everybody in this activity looks at it at least every once in a while. In my experience the more someone goes out of their way to exclaim how awful DCP is the more likely it is that person reads (and probably posts) on DCP. In all honesty DCP isn't that bad of a place as far as internet forums go. It's well moderated, discussions tend to be civil, and everyone's united by a singular passion for this activity. But if you want to see really good, substantive, and open posts by the bigwigs on an internet forum you're going to have to look through the RAMD archives. Even though that place turned into a cesspit it also hosted viewpoints that you'll never find on DCP . . . people have become much more guarded since the Wild West days of the internet.

It would be nice if people would respect the wishes of the corps, but that's just not going to happen in this day and age. Corps face a stark choice. They can be ahead of things and control the release of information and media. Or they could let others do it for them. That's any easy choice to make, IMO. Going into a black hole nine months out of the year is no longer possible nor desirable. But if you really want to keep secrets here's a few hints: If you don't anyone to know about your show, don't tell anyone. If you don't want anyone to see or hear your show material, don't perform it front of anyone. I know that copyright frequently comes up in these discussions. Frankly, I've never heard of copyright being given as a reason for keeping information s00per sekrit either in corps or band. Designers and instructors are worried about unfinished products, works-in-progress, etc. hurting their image, or else they want things to be a "surprise". That's their right, of course, but it's a pretty untenable position in this day and age.

Lest we forget, the G7 excluded themselves after the initial fiasco. As I recall the G7 at that time held four of the six "corps" seats on the board. The membership voted two of them out to make things more proportional . . . i.e. the G7 made up 1/3 of the total DCI membership at that time, so they should only hold 1/3 of the seats on the board. But after that the other G7 directors on the board resigned and haven't tried to regain their seats since that time. Maybe they wouldn't get elected if they did try, but I don't really know that for sure. Anyways my point is that the G7's exile is entirely self-imposed. And I'm curious to know what step the G7 has made towards DCI? The ToC was a massive concession on the part of DCI, and the seven apparently couldn't agree on how to run these so DCI stepped in and saved the G7's baby at the last minute. Pretty magnanimous. In return the G7 have demanded that they be given a majority of seats on an unwieldy 12 member board, or else. Now both sides are at fault here, but the G7 is absolutely the most intransigent. That's pretty hard to deny. I love these seven corps, support them, and will continue to support them whatever path they take. I've got a sister in one of them and have spent a lot of time volunteering with that corps. These are all great organizations that are mostly well run. But I'm afraid some of my fellow G7 fans are a bit obtuse or maybe contrarian and are refusing to see the truth that's standing in plain sight right in front of them. The bitterness, the pettiness, the acrimony, and the "have your cake and eat it too" attitude are all very, very disheartening. They have no solutions and have admitted as such, but still want to be in charge.

What is they're doing other than saying "We don't know what to do . . . but you should let us be in charge anyways."?

The problem I see with that is that many of the best minds in the business for off-the-field type stuff are at corps outside the top 12. Groups like Jersey Surf and Pacific Crest probably offer a better glimpse of the future of drum corps in terms of touring, etc. than some of the top-placing organization. It would be a shame to silence those voices.

Never really minded the seven going off to do their own thing. More power to them. What I hate are the attempts to co-opt DCI to suit their own purposes, which is what this proposed reorganization of the board is. Very convenient that a groups of seven corps wants a twelve member board. I'm not sure they'll get it, which may give them reason enough to leave. And that may be the whole point behind this. Ideally I'd like to see a board completely independent of the corps . . . not gonna happen though.

Some of you are acting like the OP accused YEA of murdering puppies. It's both funny and a little sad. Calm down. Unclench your fists, wipe the spittle off your monitor, and disconnect your internet for a few hours. Realize that the OP is a half-serious wind-up gently poking fun at what is, frankly, a completely inept fundraising gimmick and not a vicious, slanderous assault on a helpless drum corps.

I say keep it alive. The amount of butthurt generated by the OP is hysterical. Good job! Anyways, in fundraising sometimes necessary to take the blitzkrieg approach. But doing it 365 days a year is counterproductive. That's not an opinion, it's a fact.

You won't find a piece of paper that says the G7 was planning to split. The idea comes from two parts of the proposal. First, the idea that the G7 would host a series of shows independently of DCI while still participating in the DCI tour. Second, that the corps would take over certain tasks formerly tasked to DCI (Crown and ticket sales, for example). The idea that the G7 wanted to trial run an independent tour while still remaining within DCI is implicit. As in almost everything else in life you have to read between the lines unless you actually enjoy being spoon fed bull####. There was some verbal discussion, or rather verbal threatening (bet you can't guess from who!) of a split. But it's not a serious possibility. These corps still need DCI as much as DCI needs them. The idea of a "split" and most of the wackier parts of the G7 proposal all come from one source who went a little overboard when he was asked to come up with a simple presentation.

I've always found these so-called "dark" shows, including the ones mentioned in the OP, to be incredibly silly and corny. Not something I'd want to see a drum corps doing. Teenagers sure do seem to love it though. "Dark" to me would be a show like BK 2006, which involved little pretension and almost no over-the-top writhing around on the field.

1. "They" could easily notice. Organizations like BMI and ASCAP have people who do nothing but look for violations. And you'd be surprised at how little it takes for them to threaten legal action. Maybe the rights holders to these clips don't work like that, but DCI can't really afford to take that risk. 2. "They" most certainly will care. What makes you think they won't? Copyrighted material needs to be protected, even against "minor" infringements. 3. "Their" chances of success would be somewhere around 100%. For the most part "they" are substantial entities with small armies of lawyers at their disposal. Trouble and cost don't really enter into the equation. Now is legal action likely to occur? Certainly not. C&D is as far as things would go in most cases. But DCI can't afford to take that risk . . . one incident with an aggressive copyright holder could be catastrophic. It's really, really, really easy to sit at your computer and urge DCI to go tilting at windmills. Fortunately DCI is being a bit more sensible.

Well, instead of b####### you could have, y'know, discussed the storm and perhaps offered some suggestions on ways DCI and corps can help out. Another option would have been to look a mere six threads down on the first page to find the thread about Hurricane Sandy and the outreach efforts of a DCI member corps. I'm sure will see more in the way of outreach once immediate recovery efforts are over. Several drum corps have stepped up to help out bands affected by natural disasters in recent years. I don't doubt the same will happen here as well.