Matt_S

That's been about the spread between them and the Cavaliers all season. No surprises yet tonight, but semis is always where things get the most interesting.

I guess to be more specific I should have said subcaptions. Cavaliers took a couple from BD in guard and brass in Allentown, and Bluecoats had been outscoring Cavs in those captions previously.

Actually I think that Cavies score is too low, based upon what the Blue Devils have been doing. I think they needed a 97, cause BD's almost certain to break 98. Cavies are looking at 2nd or 3rd. Bluecoats need to top the Cavaliers for anyone else but BD to have a shot at the title. Of course, maybe that changes if either corps continues the recent trend of taking captions from the Blue Devils, which would prevent anyone from running way out in front

The Cavaliers 96.550 Big spread for them, wonder where Bluecoats will fit in.

I like having the CDs, actually. Sure I rip them right away, but I can't listen to MP3s in my car. I never listen to the radio (apart from NPR news during my commute), so I always have a stash of CDs with me in the car. Like bawker said, it's also nice to have a hard copy in case the MP3s get lost for whatever reason. On a personal level, I'm also a collector. I think it started with baseball cards when I was a kid. There's just something satisfying about having a nice, unbroken row of DCI CDs sitting on my shelf.

Man, if Spirit is a 16th place show, this must be a pretty stacked year. I really enjoyed that program in person, and they sounded better and better on the APDs.

Scouts posted a view of the Q'Finals crowd:

I lolled

The 2010 media products are now available for pre-order on DCI.org. No pictures yet, but near as I can tell here are the options: 2010 World Championships Blu-ray Disc Your Price: $119.00 The top 12 World Class corps on Blu-Ray 2010 World Championships DVD Vol.1 Your Price: $99.00 The top 12 World Class corps on DVD 2010 World Championships DVD Vol. 2 Your Price: $39.00 The 13th-23rd placing World Class Corps on DVD 2010 World Championships CD Your Price: $29.00 Featuring all 23 World Class Corps 2010 World Championships Blu-ray/CD Bundle Your Price: $129.00 The Blu-ray plus the CD, saving you $19 vs. buying them separately 2010 World Championships World Class Bundle Your Price: $129.00 Both Volume 1 and 2 of the DVDs together plus the CD, saving you $38 vs. buying them separately 2010 World Championships DVD/CD Bundle Your Price: $119.00 Volume 1 of the DVDs plus the CD, saving you $9 vs. buying them separately The 2010 CDs are scheduled to be available by October 1, 2010. The 2010 DVDs/Blu-ray are scheduled to be available by November 15, 2010. I'm pretty excited to see the 2010 Blu-rays. As incredible as the product was, for me 2009 was a down year in terms of the actual shows. I'm already more impressed by what I see in 2010 and I'm glad it'll be captured in the highest quality. It's great to see that DCI will be continuing this product going forward. I'll likely put in a pre-order for the Blu-ray/CD bundle. Unfortunately that means I'll have to buy the Volume 2 DVD separately to be sure to get the 13-23 corps. It'd be nice if DCI could bundle those three products together to capture all of World Class. I don't see any products available yet for Open Class. It'll be curious to see if those get added at a later date.

FWIW, I think Blue Stars are more than capable of finishing in the top seven this year.

Tez, again, you're starting from the assumption that not having the WS corps at their shows is going to be disastrous to the remaining corps. You're right, there are no WS shows on the west coast. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for the Mandarins, Pacific Crest, Cascades, The Academy, Blue Knights and the Troopers to get together and do a west coast tour. You could add some excellent Open Class corps like the Oregon Crusaders and the Velvet Knights. Maybe the Crossmen and/or Revolution could make it out there from San Antonio. Think the California crowds wouldn't buy tickets to see that show? With no early WS shows in the Midwest, how about the Blue Stars, Madison Scouts, Glassmen, Colts, and Pioneer get together for some shows? I see nothing in the proposal to suggest that the non-WS corps will have to perform in fewer shows. The World Series corps are looking to create new opportunities for their corps to create revenue; I see no reason why the remaining corps can't go out and do the same. Stating unequivocally that these corps are incapable of floating on their own suggest that these corps were dead weight to begin with. Not even the World Series corps are claiming that.

From the proposal, as Jeff posted it: So no, it's not arbitrary, and yes, it is based upon competitive results.

They weren't quite top two, but just last year The Cadets went from a 9.70 in Percussion tech to a 9.00 on Finals night. They went from third in the subcaption to eighth. In overall percussion, they went from a 19.50 to an 18.50.

Let me see if I understand this right. You're saying that as things are right now, the top eight corps put on a major show that draws $100,000 in revenue, and the only direct payment they receive is $2700 in performance fees? Well no wonder the G7 and World Series concepts have been proposed. When you put it like that, I'm only surprised that it took this long.

No, it's just that drum corps didn't truly become drum corps until the last 30 years or so. The 1976 Blue Devils show doesn't deserve to be on the list because it isn't real drum corps. /sarcasm?

Only the top eight corps compete at Murfreesboro as it is. I think the proposal likely included Murfreesboro because it's already a de facto World Series corps event.

I thought for sure that Cavaliers 2002 made the cut in the original thread for this. I'm surprised to see the show wasn't in the top five.

Check out the pinned thread, located here: http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=139789

The analogy doesn't hold. The World Series corps have not split from DCI, have not proposed to do so, and indeed their proposal stresses their desire not to compete for revenue directly with the remaining corps. They may be prepared to eventually take that route if they feel it necessary, but for now you're bringing your own assumptions to the conversation. To make the analogy hold, you have to imagine that the subsidiary does everything you've stated, but stays with the Pepsi company while doing so. The subsidiary gets to keep its own vending machines and all revenue from them; Pepsi gets the revenue it makes from selling its subsidiary's product. If that product were much more popular than anything else Pepsi had to offer (as the World Series corps' product is), then for Pepsi it's a much better deal than direct competition. It may even end up being a better deal overall. Imagine that the subsidiary is able to use its increase revenue to grow its brand and broaden its customer base. Because the subsidiary remains within Pepsi, Pepsi sees its revenue increase as well. If you want to grow the activity, you are going to use the World Series corps as your selling point. (Maybe you'll include Boston, the Blue Stars or the Madison Scouts as well, and I'm not going to say you shouldn't. There is certainly something arbitrary in selecting just seven corps for this - but then if you're going to take this step then you have to cap it somewhere, and you'll get an argument no matter where that cap is placed). But speaking personally, if I want to introduce someone to the activity then I am going to show them the best the activity has to offer. I am going to show them World Class Finals, if I can. I'm going to feel much more hesitant about taking them to a mid-June show where they'll have to first watch a senior corps, an Open Class corps or a quarterfinalist 'teaching' corps before they ever get to see the corps that DCI rightfully uses to advertise its organization. I don't intend any offense toward those groups. You and I know their worth... but that's because you and I have already been hooked on the activity, and have stuck around to find that out. Lost in the criticism is the fact that this is a potential opportunity for the entire drum corps activity. These World Series events will be unprecedented displays of the best the activity has to offer. It's the last two hours of World Class finals, performed throughout the summer and across the nation. If you know of anyone in your life who wonders what the fuss is all about, take them to one of these shows. If they get hooked, that's one more paying customer. This proposal keeps all the major DCI events intact. The World Series corps will still be joining all other World Class corps for the Saturday regionals, as well as DCI Championships. Any fan who likes what he sees at World Series event and returns for a DCI event is a fan that DCI might not have had otherwise. That's revenue back into the pockets of the Mandarins and everyone else. If you're Pepsi and you see that after 40 years some of your products are very popular and others are not, what do you do? You could continue to fund all of your products equally, and hope for the best. Or you could redistribute your resources, even if it means some of your products have to get by with less, so that you can leverage the popularity of your better products and grow the company.

I don't really like my job, but I get up every morning and go to work anyway. What is my motivation? Money. I do the things that I have to do so that I am then able to do the things I want to do. In that regard, George Hopkins is just like anyone else.

First... of course it's about money. It's always about money. When the G7 proposal was created it was about money. When the board realigned to shut out the G7 directors it was about money. Every corps from the Blue Saints to the Blue Devils bases their decisions on money. If they don't, then they had better start. I don't care how altruistic or selfless your mission is, you aren't going to accomplish that mission if you can't keep yourself funded. So if we're going to have this discussion, let's dispense with the negative connotations that are often associated with the desire for money. I'm not necessarily speaking directly to you, garfield, because I didn't read that mindset in your post, but to those who are sure to follow up by labeling these seven corps as "greedy". Now, that said, I think this entire debate regarding the World Series concept can be summed up in one question. Do you believe that the revenue a corps brings in belongs to that corps, or is it owed to the activity overall? How you answer that will tell me how you feel about what these seven corps are planning, and I'll use a line from your post to explain what I mean. This is the premise that I am not ready to buy. What I read in the World Series concept is the addition of multiple shows throughout the season where only the top seven corps from the previous two years will participate, and where only the participating corps will split the revenue. These shows will take place mostly on Friday, Sunday and Monday, leaving the major DCI events on Saturday intact and there is no intention of conflicting with any corps' home show. I have yet to read, nor has anyone been able to find for me, anything in the proposal that limits the number of shows which the remaining corps may participate in outside of these World Series events. From that, I conclude that the remaining corps are free to take in as much revenue as they are able. The only difference I find between the status quo and the World Series model is that the remaining corps will not have the benefit of the headliners appearing in the same show as often as they did before. The example that was provided previously was that any show where the Mandarins no longer compete in the same lineup with the Cavaliers is less money for the Mandarins. I think it's a fair point. I'm not convinced, however, that this is the equivalent of taking revenue from the Mandarins. The proposal may result in the Mandarins having less revenue, this is true. But if the money was there at one show when the Cavaliers were in attendance, then gone at the next show when the Cavaliers were absent, shouldn't that money rightly be attributable to the Cavaliers? In previous discussions I've heard your criticism that even if the Cavaliers are the draw, how can that effect be quantified. Well, all things being equal (which I realize they never quite are), it seems to me that difference in revenue between a show with the Cavaliers in attendance and a show without them is the measurable amount of the Cavaliers drawing power. In the real world we don't have the ability to control for every other variable and prove beyond doubt that the Cavaliers are solely responsible for the change in revenue... but for our purposes here, we don't have to. The argument I cited in the above paragraph already concedes that this is true! Every complaint is this forum has looked at the proposed reality - where the Cavaliers will not be in as many shows together with the Mandarins - and concluded, without consideration for any other variables, that the Mandarins will see less money for it! On days that the World Series corps hold their exclusive parties, the Mandarins are free to attend a show with any combination of the remaining corps. If that show fails to produce as much revenue as it would with even one World Series corps in attendance, then you have a hard time convincing me that the Mandarins have any claim on that difference in revenue. On the contrary, if the Mandarins are getting more revenue right now than they would if the World Series corps packed up and formed their own circuit, then that suggests to me that the one guilty of taking revenue from other corps is the Mandarins. That might be a great system for keeping a less stable corps afloat, but one potential problem with revenue sharing is that eventually you might run out of other corps' money. If the World Series corps have decided that time is coming, then their proposal begins to make a lot of sense.

Topics merged. Well, the map I made is obsolete now.

Excellent review Harvey. I don't agree with everything you had to say, particularly regarding the Bluecoats and your aversion to electronic generally, but as always it was a pleasure to read. Thank you!

That doesn't sound like we have any guarantee of authenticity. Even if what you received is accurate, we have no idea who leaked it and for what purposes. It seems pretty clear that whoever sent you the document knew you would be posting it here.