tuning the hornline

[bbaritone_41]

I've recently acquired a chromatic tuner. Hence, I want our hornline to be in tune.

In what key does the G hornline be tuned into?

I've tuned them in G but when they play, they tend to be sharp.

What makes them like that?

I know mouthpieces can be an issue but most of the hornline play on similar mpcs.

7C for the sops, and sadly 7C also for the mellos :( 12C for the baris, 5G for the euphs and 25C for the contras

Do some particular brand of horns have tuning problems?

By the way, it's a mixed line of King, Kanstul and Dynasty horns.

Thanks in advance

[Shadow_7]

Which G did you tune them to? Most times we tune to the written C, which sounds a concert G and registers as G on most chromatic tuners. If you tune to the written G, that tends to be a sharp partial on most horns. Although for the King K-90 that was a flat partial. Not sure if this helps or not.

[bbaritone_41]

Which G did you tune them to? Most times we tune to the written C, which sounds a concert G and registers as G on most chromatic tuners. If you tune to the written G, that tends to be a sharp partial on most horns. Although for the King K-90 that was a flat partial. Not sure if this helps or not.

I make them play C which registers G on the chromatic tuner.

[BlueStar98]

The third space C for everyone will accomplish your goal...however...

You must keep in mind that an instrument in the key of G has varied AND intense intonation tendencies. Using a tuner on a daily even hourly basis is not a bad idea. Frankly, for a bugle it's a necessity. But if you would like to take the next step in being in tune, create an intonation map. Meaning, have a chart of each pitch on the horn and use your tuner to write down how many "cents" sharp or flat each note is. This is best accomplished with one person playing and one using the tuner (people tend to try and make the note in tune with lips if they look at it by themselves). You can use the valve slides on the horn to adjust the intonation of each note. In some cases you may need to adjust aperture. I know the sops on the kanstuls have something called a tune-any-note option or TAN. It's a little awkward, but with some time and a LOT of practice on the horn you can get used to it.

You can find an intonation map here: http://www.jeffappel.org/Lesson_Resources.html

Simply use the trumpet map for everyone. I'm still developing it a bit, but this should help.

Also, the size of your mouthpieces may be a bigger issue than you realize. The bugle is a bigger horn, in a lower key. Consider this analogy, a bass trombone player would never play on a 12c (very small) because the mouthpiece is not appropriate for the larger horn. It appears all the pieces you have listed are very small and for beginning 7th or even 5th grade lips! Something like a 3c for sops and 6 1/2al for baris. Drop me a line and we can discuss options for this.

Good luck with your tuning adventure!

[GuyW]

A 12C on baris (what was once known as bass baritones) is a plenty good mouthpiece if it fits you....

A Bach 12C its the one I used from 1963-1974, and 2005-on...., and no one has *ever* accused me of not moving air or having poor tone...

[G-horns]

Tuning is probably the biggest moving target in drum corps.

I suggest that you have probably done about as much with the tuner as you can ever expect to do - especially with a mixed set of horns. The trick now is to get the players to listen to each other and themselves. You can mess with all the tuning slides and STILL have intonation issues because valved brass instruments will always have inherent minor intonation problems. For example, after tuning the open concert key pitch of the horn, you try to tune the first valve. What note do you use? A full step below the open pitch (i.e. concert G instrument, tuning to concert F with the first valve down)? Then when you play a concert A using the first valve, you are really modifying the third (concert B) and the concert A will probably be a few cents flat. The bottom line is the players MUST compensate for poor intonation on some notes. And we're talking CENTS here, folks. It isn't like someone needs to bend a pitch a full half-step!

LISTEN, LISTEN, and when you think you've listened enough, LISTEN SOME MORE.

[MelloHorn13]

Didn't read completed through the thread, just skimed.

My input on mouthpieces after 8 years of DrumCorps.

Lead Sopranos - anymouthpiece thats comfortable but produces a nice full sound.

2nd Sops- 3c

3rd Sops - 1c

If I had my choice I would use all french horn mouthpieces with adapters on mello just because it adds a nice dark timbre to the hornline. The standard 6v would work also

Lead Baritones - if the part has extreme register, 6.5 AL

2nds,3rds, Euphs - Schilke 51D

Contras - Haven't really played with tuba mouthpieces but a comfortable bach mouthpiece usually do the trick for me.

Now with tuning with G horns....... it's tricky still haven't completed figured out successful ways to tune a hornline on G and maintain. You can also do some pitch bending with the tuning pitch that also trains the players to play into the center of the pitch relatively close to the desired tuning pitch.

[randomnoise]

If I had my choice I would use all french horn mouthpieces with adapters on mello just because it adds a nice dark timbre to the hornline.

Just use French Horns!

[JimF-LowBari]

Used a 12 or 12C for years (Trombone/piston-rotor Bari) but switched to Schilke 6 1/2 (I think - not at home to check) as directed by the horn instructor. Schilke has a larger bore and I can push air better thru my G Kanstul 3v. (After a 19 year break I need all the help I can get.) Not sure what the 2nd and 1st Baris use.

Problem I have tuning is sometimes I have the first valve tuning slide pushed in the whole way when being checked. Must throw off the tuner pretty bad as the instructor always gets a WTF look when it happens.

Edited August 23, 2007 by JimF-3rdBari

[Robbie Ellis]

a WTF look

There are always guys that get that look from Larry Kerchner in our horn line!

We seldom tune with the tuner. It would be a waste of time for our corps considering the different horns and mouthpieces and players. However we tune by Larry going to each player and asking them to play a middle C. The horn next to me has his main slide out about 2 inches and mine is out about 1/8". We get in tune the best we can and then listen to each other. Eventually it sounds pretty much in tune and we can begin to play music without making Larry's ears bleed. We go through a little tuning exercise also that allows the different sections to hear each other and blend. The whole line begins on middle C and goes from there. Lead sops go C to G, seconds go C to D and so on. It also includes a crescendo from pianisimo to triple forte.

It would be lovely to be in perfect tune each time we play a note but that isn't going to happen. But we do get pretty close.

It also helps if all the horns are in good working order and you don't have to change temperatures.