A Word From the OTHER Competition...

[BigDale]

crack of dawn apple-eaters.

a better captain, picard or kirk

buy you a beer

Div. II/III prelims, semis and finals, then the top 3 moved on to Div. I quarters.

I wish to address these issues individually.

1. Geneva Appleknockers. I have heard of them. Schaefer Ladies too! ("Pound for pound, the biggest all girl corps around" Uncle Vinnie)

2. Kirk. He helped me get a great deal for my Pasadena trip package on Priceline.

3. Will take that beer, but bear in mind I ALWAYS do buybacks, so plan on reciprocity.

4. Old format. Cool.

BTW, nice job with the new kids this year. I am so proud! B)

[BigDale]

VK ADVANCES.

and The Godfathers are back in town Friday.

WE will be there.

:spit: - :spit: - :spit: - :spit: - :spit: -

Edited August 8, 2007 by D. MacKinley Riebesehl

[Tom Brace]

It is not merely a 1 in 4 chance of marching Div I - you don't even take into consideration CHOICE! There are kids that choose to stay in the smaller corps that they feel loyalty towards. Where does that fit into your statistics?

Irrelevance my ###! If it weren't for the Div II/III corps, there would only be 2 maybe 3 Div I corps at the California shows. Do you think the local people will pay $20 to $50 to watch 3 corps (less than an hour of entertainment)? I doubt it because most of those fans are the parents of the kids in the B corps. Not to mention the fact that at the early season shows, most corps have an incomplete product.

You want to talk flaws in the system? Fine. But don't do it on the shoulders of the Div II/III kids that sweat, bleed and work just as hard as the Div I kids and ARE relevant to the activity because they do produce an entertaining product.

How many people show up for a II/III only show? Let's take attendance from yesterday. I am not and have not BEAT UP THE KIDS so don't even go there. Not fair at all. If they choose to march II/III fine. If they choose to age out there...fine. If they choose to appear in front of empty stands during the afternoon in Madison, DeKalb, etc. fine. That's not my choice.

What all of you Tom Brace haters should be thinking is HOW DO WE FILL THE FREAKIN STANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom Brace]

Going to the new topic,

What do you think the results would be if DCI were to give a Div. II/III finals ticket to everyone who bought the Super 3 package, would that boost attendance at all?

Call it a Super 4? Well...it didn't work for the fans I talked to on Friday night semis last year. I OFFERED to buy the ticket if they met me at the gate of the souvie alley at 11 a.m. for the noon show. My son and I were there and we got no takers.

[Tom Brace]

I've come to take what Tom Brace says with a grain of salt, but I currently have nothing better to do than argue...

I don't know if I'd agree with the "1 in 4" whatever. You cannot implicate that number from that survey, as that says nothing about the number of people from D2/3 who actually go to the auditions for D1. Those two have nothing to do with one another. Your chance is increased greatly by marching 2/3, but not everyone decides to go audition for D1. In addition to the fact that the size of the two samples are completely different, therefore changing the percentage.

I also don't think that it affects anyone marching that there is "no audience to attend," as the grand majority of the audience that is there is genuinely interested in seeing what you put on the field. Honestly, I would have much rather performed in front of that audience than one for a show where we were performing with D1, as half of the people in the stands there were not actually there to see what we put on the field, as at those shows you encounter significantly more attendees who are not real "drum corps fans," but rather people who are attending with their high school/to see their cousin who marches D1/etc.

Whatever. I loved marching D2, and it never greatly bothered me that the audience wasn't huge, because the people who were there were entertained by what we were putting on the field.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents, so I'm going to go back to my depression because I can't be in Pasadena this week :(

(I have to take all of my time off for band camp this year, as both of the bands I teach have camp the same week...)

Laurel...I agree with exactly what you said because Div. II/III is about the kids. It's DCIs version of AYSO (American Youth Soccer League)...which...by the way promotes an "Everybody plays." philosophy.

But to the point. If there's no audience...then their's no money to pay the corps. No money means no gas. No gas means no traveling and at that point II/III is extinct.

DCI does not have a big paycheck to spend on the segment of the activity that is NOT drawing significant attendance. Which is why Pasadena Community College and Michigan City have been selected as sites and not the Rose Bowl or Lucas Oil Stadium.

[Tom Brace]

Well, in my time with the DCI (which included two seasons in div II/III and three in div I, along with 1 year of Div I staff) I marched with people from the following corps:

Carolina Crown (when they were div II)

Golden Lancers

Lake Erie Regiment

Spirit of Newark

Illusion

Southwind

Teal Sound

Spirit of Atlanta

East Coast Jazz

Jersey Surf

Spartans

Pacific Crest

Patriots

St. John's

Delta Brigade

Conqueror II

Academie Musicale

Les Etioles

Lone Star

Phantom Regiment Cadets/Legion

Americanos

Magic of Orlando

Boston Crusaders

Phantom Regiment

General Butler Vagabonds

Kiwanis Kavaliers

Tampa Bay Thunder

Oakland Crusaders

I mean, I could probably think of a few more if you wanted....but for you to actually say 80% of Div I participants do not march Div II/III, I just feel like that number doesn't feel fair.

At least with my experience. Where did you get that figure? I'm just curious.

I didn't say it. It comes from a DCI survey done this year. There's a link to it in this thread.

Current Div. I members who answered the survey...20% said they marched a Div. II/III before making Div. I.

[Tom Brace]

1) Package II/III Prelims and Finals as a part of the ticketing package.

2) Combine Division II and III into one single division.

3) Put Division II/III Finals on PBS.

4) Continue to encourage the development of new corps.

5) Give Division II/III a bigger presence on the DCI telecast.

6) DCI needs to do a more aggressive job in the promotion of Division II/III.

Why is it's DCI's job. They don't want anything to do with II/III other than providing these corps "occassional" performance opportunities. 90% of which are before the sun sets and the parking lots are filled with drum line gawkers.

The problem is that BY DESIGN...it's no one's job to promote II/III. And as is it will die a painful slow and agonizing death.

And still people shoot the messenger when they don't like the message.

[THX 1138]

I had the unparalled thrill and honor of announcing yesterday for the first time ever for Drum Corps International at the Division II/III Preliminary Competition at Pasadena City College. It was a great day. So many great performances, so many dedicated volunteers, so many photographers and videographers, so many news crews and video cameras...it was great. A TOP NOTCH judging panel of some of the best in the business was on hand to adjudicate. The show was SMOOTH AS ICE, with not one hiccup. On time...signed, sealed and delivered.

But you know what was missing?

YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For all of you that are Division I diehards, and wouldn't think of ever going to a Division II/III competition much less go to the Division II/III Forum here on DCP, allow me to be that "bridge" if you will. I HIGHLY suggest you scrape together an extra $10 and make the trek to Pasadena City College on Friday. Division II/III semi's will occur before Division I semi's--you'll have plenty of time to get from PCC to the Rose Bowl. And here's what you're going to get if you come out to Division II/III semi's....

• UNBELIEVABLE level of performance...these corps are HERE TO PLAY and they are battling to make Grand Finals...you think Division I is exciting--you should be here Friday! If TUESDAY was any indication--yikes. I think Division II/III is going to kick it up a notch or forty on Friday!
  
• GREAT STADIUM!! It may not be the highest in the world, but it certainly is intimate--and you REALLY get to see what's going on out on the field! Not just hear the sound and see the drill--but watch the KIDS!! WOW!!! What intensity!!
  
• Great parking!!! Multi-storied parking structure VERY easy to get to the stadium. About 100 yds IF THAT away.
  

I can't think of anymore important reason though than to share your love of drum corps with the "up and coming" kids in this activity. I'll be brutally honest. Last year, in Madison, with VERY few exceptions, I was bored silly at Division II/III. But not this year. Something got into the water supply of these corps, and they are all across the board some of the best Division II/III I have EVER seen. MUSICAL, LOUD, INTENSE...oh yeah...that's what drum corps is!!!

So if you REALLY want to get overloaded on drum corps, see you on Friday at Pasadena City College. You will NOT be disappointed. And for a second--think what it's like to perform for a stadium FULL of people that are roaring for you. What's the worth?

For me--$10 for a ticket to help make that happen!

ROCK ON and see you Friday!!

Great post. Thanks, Ryan. Wish I could be in Cali right now.

[Eddie]

• UNBELIEVABLE level of performance...these corps are HERE TO PLAY and they are battling to make Grand Finals...you think Division I is exciting--you should be here Friday! If TUESDAY was any indication--yikes. I think Division II/III is going to kick it up a notch or forty on Friday!
  

There is no grand finals Ryan... just finals

[Tom Brace]

I personally feel that the 20% stat is skewed. What about all the div II/III kids that decide to stay in div II/III? What about the kid who only gets to march 1 year, say their age out,and it happens to be with a div II/III? It's just another option for kids to march. Some kids may join div II/III to try things out and see if they ever really want to move up to Div I. There's a whole ton of respect needed for the kids of div II/III, think about the the lack of practice they get some day on tour? Going on first at a joint division show, that means the corps needs to stop rehearsing not too long after lunch, they're warming up in the parking lot before some of the "big dogs" have even hit the showers or done their run thru. I started in the div II/III circuit mainly because I wasn't ready talent wise for a div I corps AND the closest div I corps to me was 8 hours away, and as a 15 year old kid, I couldn't really get to those camps.

My rookie year, we marched a regional at 7:30am with the only people in the crowd being the food staff from our corps, it didn't stop the corps from performing one bit. We were on a mission that summer to get better and have fun, the same as Div 1 corps.

I'm all for Div II/III.

Again...I understand...II/III is about the members. I get that. But, you also need to draw a crowd or other revenue sources.

Ask a current II/III director what they get paid per show. That's all I ask. I think it will open a lot of eyes to this issue.