Matt_S Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Vis caption includes the marching members, and the guard. Lets ignore the guard for now.....If the team that wins vis has the best marchers, why do they fall down? Isn't marching performed standing up? So how can a team with "not the best marchers" win vis? I know it may be unreasonable, thats y I started the thread :) Imagine two people juggling, one is using three balls, the other using five. Maybe the one juggling five balls drops a few here and there, but who's performance do you find more impressive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 The visual judge's perspective and analysis is totally different form yours in the stands or theater. The judge is on the field, can see only the performance in his or her line of vision, and is judging repertoire and technique. if the judge sees people fall, yeah, that's not good technique, though very intermittent mistakes can be compensated for in really strong performance in the 99% fall-free parts of performance. And when you just count falls, you're taking a tick-based and not build-up scoring approach that the visual judge takes. Best guess: the falls weren't seen by the judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantomws Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 "They had a TON of people go down and still won vis." Let's assume an average weight of 150lbs per marching member. One ton of people then equals 13.333333333333333333333333333333 people. For the Cadets at WW in 84 this may actually be correct. But I think it may have bee closer to half a ton. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Thunder Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 See Whitewater WI, 1984.They had a TON of people go down and still won vis. The Cadets not only won visual that night in '84....they got a PERFECT ensemble visual score! Despite the fact a dozen of their horn players tumbled at the end of the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaghatron Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Maybe the judges gave them the benefit of the doubt due to the invisible hash marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Cat Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Peel Back is right on the mark --- Most likely the judge did not see and even if he had - what were the circumstances?? A fall during a very challenging move is not the end of the world. Field judges are not there to check off instantaneous errors, but to evaluate the OVERALL techniques, training, skills and RESPONSIBILITIES placed on the students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnp Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Maybe the judge didn't see the falls or maybe as a whole... even with the falls, they were still better then the rest. I agree. They are on a different level when it comes to their visual program. They should be taking G.E. Visual by at least a half point, if not more. Cadets and BD are very, very good, but just not on the same playing field when it comes to G.E. visual. This is why they can withstand several falls and still win the caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galen Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 isn't some of what's judged based on recovery? if someone falls, how fast did they react? how quickly did they get back into it? That is on the sheets. The top box says something to the effect of "Mistakes are rare, and recovery time is almost instantaneous" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyonepointthree Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) Last night the Cavaliers won the visual caption. I'm also hear rumors about how they had 2-3 members fall down. I know it has nothing to do with the judging, and that the judges possibly didn't see any falls, but how does the visual caption winner fall 3 times in a show? it just seems weird to me, any opinions? The Cavaliers didn win the Visual Caption. The "visual caption" in DCI is merely the performance visual score. That is the ONLY score that determines that caption. As for winning overall visual, I can easily see that. 1) The guard judge has nothing to do with an alleged "fall". 2) the Vis Perf judge could easily be on the other side of the field and not see it. 3) Vis Ensemble was 2nd place, which could VERY WELL reflect some inconsistency on the field, though most judges don't "penalize" corps for a fall, but rather give credit to quick recover. 4) Look at GE Visual....1st in Rep, but 2nd in Perf. Are you thinking the judges need to give a "penalty" for something out of the norm? If that is the case, there should have been one major one that stayed on the recap. There is forgiveness in judging. ALSO...you said it yourself..."rumors". Why put your name on a post using "rumor" instead of "fact" as your source of information? Edited August 10, 2007 by eightyonepointthree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Imagine two people juggling, one is using three balls, the other using five. Maybe the one juggling five balls drops a few here and there, but who's performance do you find more impressive? That implies that their visual program is heads and shoulders above everyone else. I do not feel this is the case. I will give their color guard credit, and maybe their vis ensemble...but not on an individual basis. Just MHO, and may i say, it feels good to be talking about something other than the cadets controversy :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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