The Gay issue

[Tansea]

Can I buy ya a beer?

I was a bit sheltered in my old corps days, and aside from the occaisonal snickers about certain all male corps having couples busses, I didn't really think about such things. Now that I'm older and wiser (and have a wife that's a former "hag") I know most of the time, but just don't care.

Steak, a martini, dinner and dancing...I'm easy, not cheap B)

[Geneva]

Just to push the timeline back a few years further B) (my competitive days were mid 60's to mid 70's)...gayness was very well closeted in my experience almost "out of necessity". The iconic drum corps image at the time was to be ultra-macho (and that included the female guards!). No smiling, emoting, dancing allowed! As you can imagine, anything that deviated from that "mission" (i.e. flaming or effeminate appearances) just was not tolerated and this tended to carry over to the off-field demeanor of the corps as well. You either played out the macho role or were pushed out by the group mentality. It was not until years later that I realized the number of gay individuals with whom I performed, and you know what? They were some of our most passionate, dedicated and creative members.

Would I have a problem with my sons performing in a corps with outwardly gay individuals? Not at all. I think that most of the people that tend to have problems with this are basically insecure about their own sexuality. It is not as if they are going to be seduced into the "dark side". Studies have shown that sexual orientation is not as much a learned response as it is innate to the biochemistry of brain development. You are either born gay or straight. What is learned is one's reaction and behavior toward perceived differences in sexual orientation. The end result of this, unfortunately, has been a lot of unnecessary psychological trauma to the minority with a differing orientation.

[byline]

I would assume Madison and Cavies had more tolerance back then.

It's possible -- and it's probably better if someone from Madison or Cavies responds to that -- but I'm not sure it's absolutely a given. After all, if you go back far enough, pretty much all corps were all-male. They also sprang from a military foundation. You do the math. :)

I'm going to phrase this in very general terms, because I can't verify its truth (which probably means I shouldn't even be posting it here). But I'll try to give the general idea of what I heard without giving away too many details, and certainly without claiming this to be fact. Part of the problem with homosexuality in the '70s and '80s was, of course, that no one really wanted to talk about it openly. So things tended to get whispered, and a lot gets lots in the translation.

At any rate: In the late '70s, I had a good friend from university who marched guard in one of the all-male corps. He marched for two years with this organization, then started his third -- which would have been his age-out year -- when whatever happened happened. My understanding, based on the whispers I was hearing, was that basically this fellow had two strikes against him: He went into a gay bar and was spotted doing so by other corps members. Apparently the idea was that it was fine to be gay, as long as you were discreet. Going to a gay bar was not being discreet but was considered "flaunting" your homosexuality, and the people who saw him (including one then-closeted homosexual) reported him to higher-ups in the corps. The second problem was that this fellow refused take part in a particular corps ritual. This did not go over well, and the handwriting on the wall was that this individual was going to be kicked out. So, before that could happen, he quit. The part that I know, because I saw it, was that having to leave this corps in his age-out year took a huge emotional toll on this person. I believe he was eventually able to reconcile it, but it took a long, long time. He has since passed away, so it's impossible to know if the "whispers" I heard at the time were true. And, if his refusal to take part in the corps ritual was the sole reason for why he was going to be asked to leave, then I can kind of understand that, because it was an open act of defiance. But if it was true that his sexual orientation was the real overriding factor, then I find that very, very sad.

I also remember that in my own corps, there was a lot of general teasing of any male who showed effeminate characteristics. So I knew a lot of gay men who worked very, very hard to make sure that their sexual orientation stayed a secret, and they tried to behave in as "macho" a way as they possibly could. I can't imagine how awful it must be to live in a world of secrecy, where something so fundamental to one's personality has to be hidden from others.

I'm glad that now, a person's sexual orientation is not such an ordeal, and they are free to be open about who they truly are. That is definitely a huge improvement over when I marched.

Edited August 16, 2007 by byline

[stifled4mallettechnique]

Steak, a martini, dinner and dancing...I'm easy, not cheap B)

Sorry, Mike... I've seen ya dance, and I'm afraid I'd just disappoint you and embarrass myself! :P

[CSGreen]

I don't know about 10%, but in my neighborhood (which is not a gay concentrated area), my graduating class in HS, almost every corps I have been, every choir, and every theater program, has been closer to 30%

now my college class was closer to about 3%, but it was a Southern Baptist school... of course since it's been nearly a decade since graduation, I know of close to 20 more folks who have *come out*

10%, 1%, 3%, it doesn't matter, 100% human, that's the part that matters

[dcf06]

I really dont think that any corps you go to will have a problem with the whole "gay" issue. If there are individuals causing problems it wi usually delt with right way. Drum corps is a respect for the individual type thing. If no one is gettign along then it reflects greatly on the success of the season.

[MikeinCMH]

I have to chime in here. I marched in the drumline of one of the all male corps in the early 80s. A gay drummer! Go figure. My experience can only be described as having an “open secret.” We all knew each other and had rather secretive ways of communicating. There is an inborn “gaydar” that allows us to spot one of our own from 100 paces you know. The point I am making is that it wasn’t all that easy to be out of the proverbial closet in the early 80s. And, unless you lived in a major metropolitan area, that was gay life in the US. Drumcorps or otherwise, us gay folks had to keep a very low public profile.

Ryan your story really touched me. In a perfect world your almost seat parent will read your post and, trust me, he will smile. :)

Edited August 16, 2007 by MikeinCMH

[Willie85]

My southside Chicago corps had people of all sizes, shapes, and colors. Certainly way more diverse than my surburban high school band. While just like everywhere else, being out wasn’t necessarily an option and we talked and joked about Madison and the Cavies, we also had an underlying respect for all members of both of those corps on and off the field. Our occasional guard instructor from Cavies was always treated with respect, and we even had a few of our tough-guy male horn players defect to perform with our Class A champion winter guard (woo-hoo!).

Regarding seat mates, I recently ran into my touring seatmate from 20+ years ago. Though nothing happened back then, it turned out we both are gay, so that’s 5% of the horn line right there.

Bradrick- One of my most memorable drum corps moments was at Whitewater that year when the Sky Ryders’ Tony and Maria ran across the end zone, thru the little pine grove, and out the open gate toward the rolling hills of the Wisconsin countryside. Lenny himself would have been proud!

[ChicagoFan]

10%, 1%, 3%, it doesn't matter, 100% human, that's the part that matters

This, folks, is wisdom. If only everyone were so wise.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Ya know what I wonder...and I'm posing this question to the guys here b/c in my experience, chicks don't seem to do this but..

How come straight guys won't assume that every female out there automatically wants to jump their bones, but some straight guys automatically assume a gay guy wants them. I mean, alot of times you'll hear "I don't care, as long as they leave me alone". What makes you think <insert gay guy> is interested in YOU anyway? b**bs

Anyway, I guess I have the comfort of growing up mostly in the San Francisco Bay area. Somebody "coming out of the closet" is going to have to work alot harder than that for shock factor. It's like 'You're gay, ok.. can you pass the potatoes?"...it's never been that big of a deal amongst my family or my circle of friends or even co-workers.

We've got alot of "family" in the Renegades. I dont' know.....I guess I just don't even think about it. I'm sure it wasn't always easy for some of the gay folks in our corps. Especially the ones in the drumline or horn line. Guards have always had gay guys and chicks never mind this stuff, so I'm sure it was easier for gay guys in the guard than any other section.

In fact, I taught a guard once that had two straight guys in the guard. THEY had a hard time simply because people would just assume they were gay. Of course all the girls were hot for them tho so that made up for it.

I don't think I've provided anything substantive to this conversation.

Rock on.

:P